UMW STG3A ZC Breaks New Ground: Dyno Sheet
01-21-2007, 02:26 PM
#46
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Jean,
Calibrating a motor well depends on data !! The more detail, the easier to pick up issues . That 5 point " graph " would not have been enough even then !
Just something put out for public consumption ??
Geoff
Calibrating a motor well depends on data !! The more detail, the easier to pick up issues . That 5 point " graph " would not have been enough even then !
Just something put out for public consumption ??
Geoff
01-21-2007, 11:23 PM
#47
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Geoff,
I am well aware of that
What I am trying to say is that those 5 point graphs have dozens of pages of data backing them up..How nice or basic they look is irrespective of the quality of dyno. This is still how many of the latest engine dynos show the HP and torque curves on a piece of paper.
I am well aware of that
What I am trying to say is that those 5 point graphs have dozens of pages of data backing them up..How nice or basic they look is irrespective of the quality of dyno. This is still how many of the latest engine dynos show the HP and torque curves on a piece of paper.
01-22-2007, 03:53 PM
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Jean, Stummel,TB and others...Gentleman, Can we focus? Kevin has new technology forthcoming and that is the thrust of this thread...not dynos traces from a generation ago...Cheers, Kevin
01-22-2007, 04:04 PM
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So about that 1000NM torque at 1.3 Bar on a motor with stock heads, where is the limit on these waterpumpers is the first question that comes to mind?
What do you think Red Rooster, possible?
What do you think Red Rooster, possible?
01-22-2007, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by KPG
Jean, Stummel,TB and others...Gentleman, Can we focus? Kevin has new technology forthcoming and that is the thrust of this thread...not dynos traces from a generation ago...Cheers, Kevin
As I implied in my first comment, not that this matters to the US market or for that matter most other markets outside Germany, but there IS a difference
Last edited by TB993tt; 01-22-2007 at 05:30 PM.
01-22-2007, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TB993tt
The point about the dyno traces was that RS Tuning have the same sort of dyno traces in 2007 (same as they have done since at least 1990) using the same make dyno as Ferrari F1 team use - To my mind this is at the crux of the issue, is it Porsche comparable power or "chassis dyno" "10 second power run" type of power which may excel in the 2006 benchmark of 60-130 but may not stand the rigours of the 2007 benchmark 100-300kph
As I implied in my first comment, not that this matters to the US market or for that matter most other markets outside Germany, but there IS a difference
As I implied in my first comment, not that this matters to the US market or for that matter most other markets outside Germany, but there IS a difference
Now that the 996's are reaching or eclipsing the 993 times, it seems there is a new benchmark that clearly favors those who live in Europe with vastly higher speed limits. You guys need to make up your minds...what is the standard that we peasants need to use to be sufficiently worthy 
. Jean has already sent me my supposedly very accurate estimates of 60-130 and 100-200KMh( his words not mine) times and it easily bests a carbon bodied vehicle with RS tuning at a mere fraction of the price... Now, where does this leave us? Will a diifferent standard be needed now that much less expensive cars are competitive with much more expensive ones? Will the 60-130 times of the 996's now be cast aside in favor of 100-300kmh runs that only the clinically insane would want to attempt on public roads in the US? This is all supposed to be in good spirit of friendly competition, but I am not so sure anymore. Kevin
01-22-2007, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by KPG
TB, do we have moving goalposts? You, Jean and others successfully convinced the masses of the validity of the 60-130 run in determining true engine power. Heck, even 6Speed has a 60-130 thread and making believers over there is no easy task. Now that the 996's are reaching or eclipsing the 993 times, it seems there is a new benchmark that clearly favors those who live in Europe with vastly higher speed limits. You guys need to make up your minds...what is the standard that we peasants need to use to be sufficiently worthy . Jean has already sent me my supposedly very accurate estimates of 60-130 and 100-200KMh( his words not mine) times and it easily bests a carbon bodied vehicle with RS tuning at a mere fraction of the price... Now, where does this leave us? Will a diifferent standard be needed now that much less expensive cars are competitive with much more expensive ones? Will the 60-130 times of the 996's now be cast aside in favor of 100-300kmh runs that only the clinically insane would want to attempt on public roads in the US? This is all supposed to be in good spirit of friendly competition, but I am not so sure anymore. Kevin
Now that the 996's are reaching or eclipsing the 993 times, it seems there is a new benchmark that clearly favors those who live in Europe with vastly higher speed limits. You guys need to make up your minds...what is the standard that we peasants need to use to be sufficiently worthy . Jean has already sent me my supposedly very accurate estimates of 60-130 and 100-200KMh( his words not mine) times and it easily bests a carbon bodied vehicle with RS tuning at a mere fraction of the price... Now, where does this leave us? Will a diifferent standard be needed now that much less expensive cars are competitive with much more expensive ones? Will the 60-130 times of the 996's now be cast aside in favor of 100-300kmh runs that only the clinically insane would want to attempt on public roads in the US? This is all supposed to be in good spirit of friendly competition, but I am not so sure anymore. KevinKPG can you focus on the thread and stop hijacking it?
Wross sorry I don't understand what is ridiculous? Have I posted anything misleading or biased? Please say so if it is the case and I will apologize.. Thanks
01-23-2007, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by KPG
TB, do we have moving goalposts? You, Jean and others successfully convinced the masses of the validity of the 60-130 run in determining true engine power. Heck, even 6Speed has a 60-130 thread and making believers over there is no easy task. Now that the 996's are reaching or eclipsing the 993 times, it seems there is a new benchmark that clearly favors those who live in Europe with vastly higher speed limits. You guys need to make up your minds...what is the standard that we peasants need to use to be sufficiently worthy . Jean has already sent me my supposedly very accurate estimates of 60-130 and 100-200KMh( his words not mine) times and it easily bests a carbon bodied vehicle with RS tuning at a mere fraction of the price... Now, where does this leave us? Will a diifferent standard be needed now that much less expensive cars are competitive with much more expensive ones? Will the 60-130 times of the 996's now be cast aside in favor of 100-300kmh runs that only the clinically insane would want to attempt on public roads in the US? This is all supposed to be in good spirit of friendly competition, but I am not so sure anymore. Kevin
Now that the 996's are reaching or eclipsing the 993 times, it seems there is a new benchmark that clearly favors those who live in Europe with vastly higher speed limits. You guys need to make up your minds...what is the standard that we peasants need to use to be sufficiently worthy . Jean has already sent me my supposedly very accurate estimates of 60-130 and 100-200KMh( his words not mine) times and it easily bests a carbon bodied vehicle with RS tuning at a mere fraction of the price... Now, where does this leave us? Will a diifferent standard be needed now that much less expensive cars are competitive with much more expensive ones? Will the 60-130 times of the 996's now be cast aside in favor of 100-300kmh runs that only the clinically insane would want to attempt on public roads in the US? This is all supposed to be in good spirit of friendly competition, but I am not so sure anymore. KevinMaybe he is a member of the FIA who is notorious for catching people off guard with their rule changes.............
But I agree it is difficult to get to 300 km/h in the US, easy if you live in the sticks but risky in the city.
01-23-2007, 05:48 AM
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KPG
I needed an "evil grin" with a "winky" on it for that post - of course as Pole says I'm just raising the bar a little
This is nothing to do with 993 vs 996 I have zero hang ups in that department in fact the 993 will be at an aerodynamic disadvantage to 300kph.
You contend that 100-300kph:
"clearly favours those who live in Europe with vastly higher speed limits."
This is not about actually being able to regualrly use 300kph, it is about which hp is like Porsche hp and to what degree other hp claims are not and if not, how far away - for example I contend that the RS Tuning 680hp 996/997tt engine IS exactly the same as Porsche hp (and at $150K it bloody well ought to be) - by testing your hp to higher limits of thermal stress (like 300kph) cracks may appear in the perfect (fat) looking dyno curves - this is THE tech forum and this is tech stuff and proving that all the theory talk and nice pictures of shiny parts culmulates in how we can measure effectiveness.
You are one of the few who can be bothered to measure acceleration and that is much appreciated and ANY numbers you can get will be gratefully received
I needed an "evil grin" with a "winky" on it for that post - of course as Pole says I'm just raising the bar a little
This is nothing to do with 993 vs 996 I have zero hang ups in that department in fact the 993 will be at an aerodynamic disadvantage to 300kph.
You contend that 100-300kph:
"clearly favours those who live in Europe with vastly higher speed limits."
This is not about actually being able to regualrly use 300kph, it is about which hp is like Porsche hp and to what degree other hp claims are not and if not, how far away - for example I contend that the RS Tuning 680hp 996/997tt engine IS exactly the same as Porsche hp (and at $150K it bloody well ought to be) - by testing your hp to higher limits of thermal stress (like 300kph) cracks may appear in the perfect (fat) looking dyno curves - this is THE tech forum and this is tech stuff and proving that all the theory talk and nice pictures of shiny parts culmulates in how we can measure effectiveness.
You are one of the few who can be bothered to measure acceleration and that is much appreciated and ANY numbers you can get will be gratefully received
01-23-2007, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by TB993tt
You are one of the few who can be bothered to measure acceleration and that is much appreciated and ANY numbers you can get will be gratefully received
....but then again you dont understand our version of football ...Kevin
01-24-2007, 03:11 PM
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I think that 60-130 is fine for real world numbers.
To get real Porsche HP numbers you would need much more than even 0-200 mph at least for the smart engines like Kevins.
From my experience you get into termal problems when accelerating from 150 to 200 ongoing for like 20 times and for like 30 minutes.
A 10 minutes full blast is fine with our eninges as the cooling is very good at or near 200mph.
To get real Porsche HP numbers you would need much more than even 0-200 mph at least for the smart engines like Kevins.
From my experience you get into termal problems when accelerating from 150 to 200 ongoing for like 20 times and for like 30 minutes.
A 10 minutes full blast is fine with our eninges as the cooling is very good at or near 200mph.
01-28-2007, 08:30 AM
#59
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Hi Kevin, Would you also post the boost graph that accompanies this run? I finished the GT3R tt project and found that the K24/26 turbos from Germany would not hold 1.3bar of boost. By 4750 they were falling off, at 6000rpm they were down to 1bar and down to .9bar at 8000rpm. I think that if they were able to stay on their efficency island of the compressor map, I'd see another 50-70hp with reduced intake air temps.