2002 Porsche 996TT vs 1999 3000GT VR-4 (big video)
01-16-2003, 05:59 AM
#32
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Hamann7:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Christer:
<strong>[QUOTE]But the main thing is also to have a sense of humour unlike the BMW owner on this board. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I don't see how it is so funny to deride someone just because his English isn't perfect.
Fine, make fun of me that I have a Bimmer. I know I haven't pulled the trigger in getting my 996TT yet... so I'll take it.
But any track or canyon, I'll take on your 964 with my 740i... and show you what inferior BMW engineering can do! <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">HA HA - you obviously DO have a sense of humour, except when it is aimed at you.
Just to state the obvious (as ignorance is clearly bliss in your case), with 35 more HP I think you would do rather well to beat a car with which weighs 550kgs (that's way over 1000lbs to you) less and has a 10mph higher top speed. But you know what they say, an insane driver will generally beat a sane one. Are you nuts?
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Christer:
<strong>[QUOTE]But the main thing is also to have a sense of humour unlike the BMW owner on this board. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I don't see how it is so funny to deride someone just because his English isn't perfect.
Fine, make fun of me that I have a Bimmer. I know I haven't pulled the trigger in getting my 996TT yet... so I'll take it.
But any track or canyon, I'll take on your 964 with my 740i... and show you what inferior BMW engineering can do! <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">HA HA - you obviously DO have a sense of humour, except when it is aimed at you.
Just to state the obvious (as ignorance is clearly bliss in your case), with 35 more HP I think you would do rather well to beat a car with which weighs 550kgs (that's way over 1000lbs to you) less and has a 10mph higher top speed. But you know what they say, an insane driver will generally beat a sane one. Are you nuts?
01-16-2003, 02:00 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Christer:
Just to state the obvious (as ignorance is clearly bliss in your case), with 35 more HP I think you would do rather well to beat a car with which weighs 550kgs (that's way over 1000lbs to you) less and has a 10mph higher top speed. But you know what they say, an insane driver will generally beat a sane one. Are you nuts?[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I don't know whether I'm nuts or not. Why don't you ask wilber or the other guys who were on the Malibu run last weekend? They can tell you their opinion.
You also seem to forget that the 740i has much more torque and a flatter torque curve at that. I'd feel very comfortable running against you on the track or canyon even if I was 35 hp DOWN and 1210 lbs. heavier. Call it confidence, call it crazy. But I know the capabilities of the 964 quite well and I am quite sure I will kick your *** on almost any road.
If I'm nuts, you're just a clueless idiot!
Just to state the obvious (as ignorance is clearly bliss in your case), with 35 more HP I think you would do rather well to beat a car with which weighs 550kgs (that's way over 1000lbs to you) less and has a 10mph higher top speed. But you know what they say, an insane driver will generally beat a sane one. Are you nuts?[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I don't know whether I'm nuts or not. Why don't you ask wilber or the other guys who were on the Malibu run last weekend? They can tell you their opinion.
You also seem to forget that the 740i has much more torque and a flatter torque curve at that. I'd feel very comfortable running against you on the track or canyon even if I was 35 hp DOWN and 1210 lbs. heavier. Call it confidence, call it crazy. But I know the capabilities of the 964 quite well and I am quite sure I will kick your *** on almost any road.
If I'm nuts, you're just a clueless idiot!
01-16-2003, 02:38 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Hamann7:
<strong>[QUOTE]You also seem to forget that the 740i has much more torque and a flatter torque curve at that. I'd feel very comfortable running against you on the track or canyon even if I was 35 hp DOWN and 1210 lbs. heavier. Call it confidence, call it crazy. But I know the capabilities of the 964 quite well and I am quite sure I will kick your *** on almost any road.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">With those significant disadvantages, not to mention a automatic transmission and poor weight distribution, what advantages does the 740i have?
How do the 740i's brakes perform after 10+ laps on a racetrack?
<strong>[QUOTE]You also seem to forget that the 740i has much more torque and a flatter torque curve at that. I'd feel very comfortable running against you on the track or canyon even if I was 35 hp DOWN and 1210 lbs. heavier. Call it confidence, call it crazy. But I know the capabilities of the 964 quite well and I am quite sure I will kick your *** on almost any road.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">With those significant disadvantages, not to mention a automatic transmission and poor weight distribution, what advantages does the 740i have?
How do the 740i's brakes perform after 10+ laps on a racetrack?
01-16-2003, 02:44 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Steve Lavigne:
With those significant disadvantages, not to mention a automatic transmission and poor weight distribution, what advantages does the 740i have?
How do the 740i's brakes perform after 10+ laps on a racetrack?[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I wasn't aware that the weight distribution was so "poor" on the 7-- it is near 50/50. The tranny is a steptronic, similar to the tip in the P-cars.
The brakes aren't the strong point of the car, depending on the type of laps you are talking about. They will fade after a few laps unless you put better brake ducting in there with more aggressive pads.
This is not a discussion about how great the E38 BMW is, it's about how primitive the 964 is!
Don't forget-- the key advantage here is the driver!
With those significant disadvantages, not to mention a automatic transmission and poor weight distribution, what advantages does the 740i have?
How do the 740i's brakes perform after 10+ laps on a racetrack?[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I wasn't aware that the weight distribution was so "poor" on the 7-- it is near 50/50. The tranny is a steptronic, similar to the tip in the P-cars.
The brakes aren't the strong point of the car, depending on the type of laps you are talking about. They will fade after a few laps unless you put better brake ducting in there with more aggressive pads.
This is not a discussion about how great the E38 BMW is, it's about how primitive the 964 is!
Don't forget-- the key advantage here is the driver!
01-16-2003, 03:47 PM
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While nearly 50/50 is better than I suspected, the notion that 50/50 weight distribution is 'perfect' or ideal is false and largely a marketing ploy. Remember, under acceleration or deceleration the weight distribution changes significantly.
Any transmission with a torque converter is pretty much inferior to a manual transmission for non-drag racing performance use.
In addition to the brake size required to maintain durability under heavy use, the weight distribution has a huge affect on the braking capability. IMO, the 911 is pretty much the king when it comes to street car braking capability, no matter what size brakes you have.
The 964 is definitely more primitive than the E38 BMW, but most of these items don't have much bearing on the ultimate performance capabilities of the car. It still is relatively light, has good power, good weight distribution, low cg, good suspension design, and good sized tires relative to vehicle weight.
All that said, I did a search on the 740i sport and was impressed by the modifications they made in creating the sport model. I'm sure it is an extremely nice luxury cruiser that gives a good amount of driving pleasure, possibly even in canyon type driving situations.
Any transmission with a torque converter is pretty much inferior to a manual transmission for non-drag racing performance use.
In addition to the brake size required to maintain durability under heavy use, the weight distribution has a huge affect on the braking capability. IMO, the 911 is pretty much the king when it comes to street car braking capability, no matter what size brakes you have.
The 964 is definitely more primitive than the E38 BMW, but most of these items don't have much bearing on the ultimate performance capabilities of the car. It still is relatively light, has good power, good weight distribution, low cg, good suspension design, and good sized tires relative to vehicle weight.
All that said, I did a search on the 740i sport and was impressed by the modifications they made in creating the sport model. I'm sure it is an extremely nice luxury cruiser that gives a good amount of driving pleasure, possibly even in canyon type driving situations.
01-16-2003, 04:12 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Hamann7:
<strong>[QUOTE]
This is not a discussion about how great the E38 BMW is, it's about how primitive the 964 is!
Don't forget-- the key advantage here is the driver!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">No way no how is that 7 series going to be faster with similar drivers. I have been on track with a 7 series and regardless of any hp advantage it is a boat. A very nice boat, but a boat nonetheless. A 964 might be "primitive" but if the driver understands the car it can be very quick, even in stock form. Street/canyon driving is different than lapping.
<strong>[QUOTE]
This is not a discussion about how great the E38 BMW is, it's about how primitive the 964 is!
Don't forget-- the key advantage here is the driver!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">No way no how is that 7 series going to be faster with similar drivers. I have been on track with a 7 series and regardless of any hp advantage it is a boat. A very nice boat, but a boat nonetheless. A 964 might be "primitive" but if the driver understands the car it can be very quick, even in stock form. Street/canyon driving is different than lapping.
01-16-2003, 05:01 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Greg Fishman:
No way no how is that 7 series going to be faster with similar drivers. I have been on track with a 7 series and regardless of any hp advantage it is a boat. A very nice boat, but a boat nonetheless. A 964 might be "primitive" but if the driver understands the car it can be very quick, even in stock form. Street/canyon driving is different than lapping.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Maybe you're right... I'm assuming not so similar drivers here...
Look, you guys are preaching to the choir about Porsche braking, etc. I know, that's why I'm getting my 996TT.
But why is it that I can handily keep up with a group of modded 996TT in the canyons? Sure they can blow me away on the straightaways and the *really* tight stuff, but under most circumstances I'm pretty much right there. Either I'm a phenomenal driver (which I doubt, but I'm not too shabby) or my car is really not as slow and cumbersome as you guys think!
It's a luxury car that seems to intimidate sports cars
In a straight line, it's about as fast as a Boxster S, maybe a bit faster over 80mph. It's just a tad, and I mean a tad, slower than a 996 carrera.
Around corners it takes a bit of manhandling, but with S-03's it'll pull over 0.90g+!
No way no how is that 7 series going to be faster with similar drivers. I have been on track with a 7 series and regardless of any hp advantage it is a boat. A very nice boat, but a boat nonetheless. A 964 might be "primitive" but if the driver understands the car it can be very quick, even in stock form. Street/canyon driving is different than lapping.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Maybe you're right... I'm assuming not so similar drivers here...
Look, you guys are preaching to the choir about Porsche braking, etc. I know, that's why I'm getting my 996TT.
But why is it that I can handily keep up with a group of modded 996TT in the canyons? Sure they can blow me away on the straightaways and the *really* tight stuff, but under most circumstances I'm pretty much right there. Either I'm a phenomenal driver (which I doubt, but I'm not too shabby) or my car is really not as slow and cumbersome as you guys think!
It's a luxury car that seems to intimidate sports cars
In a straight line, it's about as fast as a Boxster S, maybe a bit faster over 80mph. It's just a tad, and I mean a tad, slower than a 996 carrera.Around corners it takes a bit of manhandling, but with S-03's it'll pull over 0.90g+!
01-16-2003, 05:19 PM
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Maybe the guys in the Porsches weren't pushing it? Seriously a lot of guys buy these cars and can't or don't want to push them very hard. I have found BMW's very easy to push the limits in because they are so well balanced. Driving my Porsche closer to the limit takes a lot more work IMO.
01-16-2003, 08:23 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Greg Fishman:
<strong>Maybe the guys in the Porsches weren't pushing it? Seriously a lot of guys buy these cars and can't or don't want to push them very hard. I have found BMW's very easy to push the limits in because they are so well balanced. Driving my Porsche closer to the limit takes a lot more work IMO.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Well, I'm sure that's the most convenient thing to think, but I don't think that's the case. I think I know cars well enough to know if they're being pushed towards the limit or not.
Pretty much all the guys who do the runs with us know how to drive very well, smooth, and fast. Most of us also track cars regularly.
Whatever, maybe my car just sucks... and it's all one big fluke
<strong>Maybe the guys in the Porsches weren't pushing it? Seriously a lot of guys buy these cars and can't or don't want to push them very hard. I have found BMW's very easy to push the limits in because they are so well balanced. Driving my Porsche closer to the limit takes a lot more work IMO.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Well, I'm sure that's the most convenient thing to think, but I don't think that's the case. I think I know cars well enough to know if they're being pushed towards the limit or not.
Pretty much all the guys who do the runs with us know how to drive very well, smooth, and fast. Most of us also track cars regularly.
Whatever, maybe my car just sucks... and it's all one big fluke
01-16-2003, 08:45 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Hamann7:
<strong>I don't see how it is so funny to deride someone just because his English isn't perfect.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">How was I supposed to know he's foreign?
Does your BMW have any mods? I have trouble believing that you can keep up with stock 996TT's, let alone modded ones.
From what I've read, the specs on the 740i Sport are not that great...
4255 lb
282 HP
0-60: 6.17 seconds
top speed: 128 mph (electronically governed)
I don't know anything about 964's, but it doesn't seem like it would take much to hang with a stock 740i sport.
<strong>I don't see how it is so funny to deride someone just because his English isn't perfect.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">How was I supposed to know he's foreign?
Does your BMW have any mods? I have trouble believing that you can keep up with stock 996TT's, let alone modded ones.
From what I've read, the specs on the 740i Sport are not that great...
4255 lb
282 HP
0-60: 6.17 seconds
top speed: 128 mph (electronically governed)
I don't know anything about 964's, but it doesn't seem like it would take much to hang with a stock 740i sport.
01-16-2003, 09:01 PM
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That electronically governed top speed is BS.
On the sport models it is really 155mph, since it comes with ZR-rated tires. Trust me, I've taken it all the way to 155.
Whether I can keep up with the P-cars, don't take my word for it, just ask wilber!
On the sport models it is really 155mph, since it comes with ZR-rated tires. Trust me, I've taken it all the way to 155.
Whether I can keep up with the P-cars, don't take my word for it, just ask wilber!
01-17-2003, 06:10 AM
#43
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Hamann7:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Greg Fishman:
<strong>Maybe the guys in the Porsches weren't pushing it? Seriously a lot of guys buy these cars and can't or don't want to push them very hard. I have found BMW's very easy to push the limits in because they are so well balanced. Driving my Porsche closer to the limit takes a lot more work IMO.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Well, I'm sure that's the most convenient thing to think, but I don't think that's the case. I think I know cars well enough to know if they're being pushed towards the limit or not.
Pretty much all the guys who do the runs with us know how to drive very well, smooth, and fast. Most of us also track cars regularly.
Whatever, maybe my car just sucks... and it's all one big fluke </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> <img border="0" alt="[icon501]" title="" src="graemlins/icon501.gif" />
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Greg Fishman:
<strong>Maybe the guys in the Porsches weren't pushing it? Seriously a lot of guys buy these cars and can't or don't want to push them very hard. I have found BMW's very easy to push the limits in because they are so well balanced. Driving my Porsche closer to the limit takes a lot more work IMO.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Well, I'm sure that's the most convenient thing to think, but I don't think that's the case. I think I know cars well enough to know if they're being pushed towards the limit or not.
Pretty much all the guys who do the runs with us know how to drive very well, smooth, and fast. Most of us also track cars regularly.
Whatever, maybe my car just sucks... and it's all one big fluke
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> <img border="0" alt="[icon501]" title="" src="graemlins/icon501.gif" />
01-17-2003, 06:22 AM
#44
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Hamann7:
<strong>That electronically governed top speed is BS.
On the sport models it is really 155mph, since it comes with ZR-rated tires. Trust me, I've taken it all the way to 155.
Whether I can keep up with the P-cars, don't take my word for it, just ask wilber!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Yes, let's see if Wilber will confirm that you can keep up when he REALLY Pushes his Porsche. Wilber, let's be having your input.
Is it just me or does 'Hamann7' sound like he is a teenager? Not that there is anything wrong with being a teenager, but I really don't see from his last posts how this gentleman has been driving for very long. Comments about 'maybe it was just a fluke', 'maybe my car sucks' smacks of immaturity. Personally I think the 740 is Daddy's car and a 996TT is a long way off. Unless you are rich-kid of course.
Good luck with your canyon driving. Perhaps you know someone who owns a 964 that can accompany you on your Dad's next trip.
<strong>That electronically governed top speed is BS.
On the sport models it is really 155mph, since it comes with ZR-rated tires. Trust me, I've taken it all the way to 155.
Whether I can keep up with the P-cars, don't take my word for it, just ask wilber!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Yes, let's see if Wilber will confirm that you can keep up when he REALLY Pushes his Porsche. Wilber, let's be having your input.
Is it just me or does 'Hamann7' sound like he is a teenager? Not that there is anything wrong with being a teenager, but I really don't see from his last posts how this gentleman has been driving for very long. Comments about 'maybe it was just a fluke', 'maybe my car sucks' smacks of immaturity. Personally I think the 740 is Daddy's car and a 996TT is a long way off. Unless you are rich-kid of course.
Good luck with your canyon driving. Perhaps you know someone who owns a 964 that can accompany you on your Dad's next trip.
01-17-2003, 12:38 PM
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you guys bitch and whine more then the f'ing ricer boards
i've driven a 740i sport through canyons, no way in hell is it gonna keep up even w/ a base 996
i've driven a 740i sport through canyons, no way in hell is it gonna keep up even w/ a base 996