Originally Posted by murphyslaw1978

Thanks. Here's what a different mechanic (Midwest Performance gave me for diagnosis: "Interrogation and inspection revealed bank 1 cam adjustment fault and misfire flags for all cylinders; bank 2 oil loss, but not bank 1. Continuity tests at bank 1 solenoid ok. Advise customer internal fault at solenoid, or actuator fault tests recommended, requires removal of timing cover; measurement of cam deviation over load ranges recommended."

Question: I see posts on how to replace the solenoid. Is this really a 6-7-hr job? And does it really require locking the crank/cams (as described here: http://986forum.com/forums/performan...iming-m96.html).

I was told by Midwest Performance Cars (Chicago, IL) that I was looking at a $2k-$3k deal. They said that by the time they pulled the camshaft cover off, they could discover things like - stretch chains and worn tensioner pads. And at that point, if that was the case, they might as well take the other side off and do the full pads replacement, etc. I guess I'm trying to understand if it's just a solenoid ($500 one at that, which has to make it into the top 10 most expensive solenoids of all time), or if they are trying to prepare me for much bigger issues. I understand tensioner pads, and if my car needs it, that's fine. But I don't recall these M96s having this as a common issue at 61,000 miles. Also, their labor rate is $160/hr and trying to keep my costs in check here.

Originally Posted by Ahsai

Not clear from what you wrote but make sure they did eliminate the DME, which is not uncommon. It will suck if misdiagnosed.

Originally Posted by murphyslaw1978

My plan was to do the 9V battery trick on the solenoid with the car off. And the 3w light bulb trick. Those two should tell me, right?

Originally Posted by murphyslaw1978

My plan was to do the 9V battery trick on the solenoid with the car off. And the 3w light bulb trick. Those two should tell me, right?

Originally Posted by Imo000

Yes, it will tell you if the solenoid is getting power when it needs to. BUT the shop should do the same too before start replacing parts that are based only on the trouble codes. A good mechanic will investigate as much as it takes to be 100% sure where the problem is and ONLY replaces that part. Regular mechanics will start throwing parts at it based on the trouble codes and the owner of the car will eat the cost. Now if the valve covers come off and the cam tensioner pads are even just slightly worn then might as well replace them since the entire mechanism will be out anyway. They parts are only $25 and labour is mere minutes. BUT I would not go and replace the other side. Your shop should prepare you for the worst case scenario but they should also explain that a proper diagnosis is necessary and that takes time. Time that you are expected to pay for. It is very difficult to get a proper estimate when there could be multiple causes to a problem.

Originally Posted by murphyslaw1978

Thanks. One question though: when you say the mechanism is already out, do you mean just for the actuator and not the solenoid? I was thinking that the solenoid can be replaced and we won't be touching the chains or pads, since the actuator isn't removed?

Originally Posted by Imo000

I thought the entire thing is sold as one piece but I never had to buy one so this could be wrong. If they sell the solenoid separately and the pads look good then yes, only replace the solenoid.

Originally Posted by murphyslaw1978

Well, you are right that the whole thing is available for $1299 (996-105-051-58-OEM, left bank only, https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_In...VSVSI=0896.htm)
You can buy just the solenoid by itself for $500 (996-605-901-00-OEM left bank, 1-3). But if the actuator is bad, after replacing the solenoid, one would have to re-buy the solenoid if it didn't fix the problem. With the labor involved, this is why it's really important to figure out exactly what's not working.

I can't believe how expensive this part is. I bought my 1976 Honda CB motorcycle for the same price as this one part.

Originally Posted by murphyslaw1978

Since I already hijacked the OP’s thread with my own, nearly identical issue, I dipped the car off today for repair. They are reporting cam deviation “the worst they’ve ever seen” at 27 degrees. “Cannot believe it even runs,” they said. Strange, since Durametric has always reported only about 2 degrees, maybe 3 worst case. They are going to have to investigate further, but have said not to be surprised if this becomes a can of worms at 60k miles and 20 years on the it.

They are going to remove & disassemble engine oil filter, replace engine filter & set oil level to spec. remove and replace cam plugs to verify camshaft timing is within spec, inspect cam solenoid for function/sticking. report results with recommendations.

Originally Posted by murphyslaw1978

Since I already hijacked the OP’s thread with my own, nearly identical issue, I dipped the car off today for repair. They are reporting cam deviation “the worst they’ve ever seen” at 27 degrees. “Cannot believe it even runs,” they said. Strange, since Durametric has always reported only about 2 degrees, maybe 3 worst case. They are going to have to investigate further, but have said not to be surprised if this becomes a can of worms at 60k miles and 20 years on the it.

They are going to remove & disassemble engine oil filter, replace engine filter & set oil level to spec. remove and replace cam plugs to verify camshaft timing is within spec, inspect cam solenoid for function/sticking. report results with recommendations.

Originally Posted by Imo000

Do you have misfires on that bank?

Originally Posted by Schnell Gelb

So they physically measured 27 degrees but Durametric said 2 degrees? That is am alarming discrepancy since we rely entirely on Durametric for that Actual value measurement.. There has to be an interesting explanation for that !!. Guessing some failure of the chain tensioner.Hopefully they check both banks.And such low miles.

Originally Posted by murphyslaw1978

They are going to need to manual check timing now instead of going off the measured values from PIWIS...

For what it’s worth regarding Durametric, Al UscinskI who works for Chicago Performance and Tuning said that he never uses Durametric because he couldn’t trust it. He said this after I told him that I’ve check my cam deviations in the past and they were fine. He said he has been screwed before not using the right tools. This is the first I’ve heard the Durametric couldn’t be trusted. But if the DME is simply reporting to Durametric, how can we fault Durametric for this. I also wonder how the timing could be that far off with an interference engine and not have caused damage.