99 C2 Code P1531 Variocam Solenoid
04-29-2017, 12:57 PM
#1
Advanced
Thread Starter
99 C2 Code P1531 Variocam Solenoid
So last week after leaving the car sitting over the weekend on Monday I got a check engine light within 5 minutes of driving. I checked the code, P1531, cleared it and continued on my way to work, the car was idling fine and drove fine. The code came back the following afternoon. I read a bunch of threads on the variocam solenoids and actuators to try to understand what to check.
So this weekend I got some time and began diagnosing the issue. I disconnected both solenoids and tested each. Bank 2 has 13.5 ohms across it and when applying 12volts with the engine off I can hear the solenoid click. Bank 1 I get 13.2 ohms, but when 12 volts is applied no click.
I then started the engine and applied 12volt to each solenoid. Bank 2 the idle changes, Bank 1 no response at all.
So pretty sure the issue is the solenoid or actuator on bank 1. I do not have access to a durametric (Anyone in Edmonton with one?). I've called a local Indy and have been quoted about 1700$ to change out just the solenoid. Is there any further diagnostic that can be done to determine solenoid vs actuator?
So this weekend I got some time and began diagnosing the issue. I disconnected both solenoids and tested each. Bank 2 has 13.5 ohms across it and when applying 12volts with the engine off I can hear the solenoid click. Bank 1 I get 13.2 ohms, but when 12 volts is applied no click.
I then started the engine and applied 12volt to each solenoid. Bank 2 the idle changes, Bank 1 no response at all.
So pretty sure the issue is the solenoid or actuator on bank 1. I do not have access to a durametric (Anyone in Edmonton with one?). I've called a local Indy and have been quoted about 1700$ to change out just the solenoid. Is there any further diagnostic that can be done to determine solenoid vs actuator?
04-29-2017, 01:16 PM
#2
Wait for our variocam expert Schnell Gelb to chime in. My take is your solenoid is bad if you don't hear any light click when power is applied. The actuator is activated by oil pressure so when engine is off, it would not move or make any sound.
The cam cover has to come off and you can unbolt the solenoid to bench test it.
The cam cover has to come off and you can unbolt the solenoid to bench test it.
Last edited by Ahsai; 04-29-2017 at 08:20 PM.
04-29-2017, 01:47 PM
#3
Race Director
So last week after leaving the car sitting over the weekend on Monday I got a check engine light within 5 minutes of driving. I checked the code, P1531, cleared it and continued on my way to work, the car was idling fine and drove fine. The code came back the following afternoon. I read a bunch of threads on the variocam solenoids and actuators to try to understand what to check.
So this weekend I got some time and began diagnosing the issue. I disconnected both solenoids and tested each. Bank 2 has 13.5 ohms across it and when applying 12volts with the engine off I can hear the solenoid click. Bank 1 I get 13.2 ohms, but when 12 volts is applied no click.
I then started the engine and applied 12volt to each solenoid. Bank 2 the idle changes, Bank 1 no response at all.
So pretty sure the issue is the solenoid or actuator on bank 1. I do not have access to a durametric (Anyone in Edmonton with one?). I've called a local Indy and have been quoted about 1700$ to change out just the solenoid. Is there any further diagnostic that can be done to determine solenoid vs actuator?
So this weekend I got some time and began diagnosing the issue. I disconnected both solenoids and tested each. Bank 2 has 13.5 ohms across it and when applying 12volts with the engine off I can hear the solenoid click. Bank 1 I get 13.2 ohms, but when 12 volts is applied no click.
I then started the engine and applied 12volt to each solenoid. Bank 2 the idle changes, Bank 1 no response at all.
So pretty sure the issue is the solenoid or actuator on bank 1. I do not have access to a durametric (Anyone in Edmonton with one?). I've called a local Indy and have been quoted about 1700$ to change out just the solenoid. Is there any further diagnostic that can be done to determine solenoid vs actuator?
With the 996 because the solenoid is (my understanding) relatively easy to get at/replace you could replace the solenoid clear the codes and road test the car. If the error comes back then the actuator is (also) the problem.
Based on my 2nd hand info regarding the solenoid in the 996 engine I have a hard time accepting that $1700 quote. That seems high, about on the order of what I paid to have the solenoid replaced in my Boxster's engine, which required the camshaft cover to be removed.
Before I dropped $1700 on a solenoid R&R I'd ask around/do some research to find out if that is indeed the going rate. 'course, in your location you may not have that many options.
04-29-2017, 02:06 PM
#4
Drifting
I am a very reluctant expert. But I learned a lot from kind Forum members. My engine had a very obscure Variocam issue that forced me to test every possible issue -very time consuming but a great learning experience.One Forum member offered a test that may help a diy-er w/o Durametric - initials are J.R.
He suggested to make a long test harness to connect the known ,good Bank to the suspect Bank. This test will identify/eliminate any expensive DME/wiring problems as the cause of your problem.
When you redo the 12v 'click' test - be very careful. Use a test cable with a fuse, a MOM switch and the correct polarised,insulated terminals because it is easy to short the pins in the Solenoid wiring. If you do, you will melt the insulation off the wires inside the harness and may not know it.Bad, very bad.
Do the click test in absolute silence and keep a finger on the top of the solenoid to feel it. The solenoid plunger operates in oil that may muffle the click.
**The Durametric test is the fastest and most conclusive. Go to Actual Values. Rev to 3000 rpm. The timing should jump on the graph to 20+ for both Banks.Check your Deviation at the same time because this will give a hint of other issues that need attention(pads?)
A note for Durametric uses - there have been 3 recent updates to the software.Download the latest now.Unlikely it will work well without this. In particular "Activations" may not work and you need that for further prompting/testing of the suspect Solenoid.
Do not assume it is just the solenoid.It could(but less likely) be the Variocam Actuator($1000 !) The Solenoid alone is much cheaper but it is the labor !!! Be sure to get the correct side - yes, they are different !!!
The Solenoid replacement can be done with the engine in the car - easier on a 996 than a Boxster . First evaluate if there are other deferred repair tasks that require engine-drop.
Personally , I would not proceed until I had Durametric data to conclusively confirm the cam cover needs to come off. I am sure an Indie would agree.
I can't think why you would cause any damage by continuing to drive the car gently.Yes the power/torque will be weaker on one Bank but just to go to get the Durametric test(gently) should be O.K.BTW the clone Durametric - very cheap from China&/or on Fleabay - is junk.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
One issue to keep in mind re- engine drop - when preparing to replace the cam cover on the engine you must run a perfect 1mm bead of sealant all around. If this is applied clumsily,the excess drops off into the oil supply and can cause all manner of problems. Typical on bad cam cover jobs(Bank 1-cyl 1.2.3) is that you get the red oil pressure light - because a tiny piece of sealant plugs the 'feed' to the oil pressure sensor that sits on top of the cam cover .Good luck figuring that fault :-). It is much less likely that this will occur with the engine on a stand.
He suggested to make a long test harness to connect the known ,good Bank to the suspect Bank. This test will identify/eliminate any expensive DME/wiring problems as the cause of your problem.
When you redo the 12v 'click' test - be very careful. Use a test cable with a fuse, a MOM switch and the correct polarised,insulated terminals because it is easy to short the pins in the Solenoid wiring. If you do, you will melt the insulation off the wires inside the harness and may not know it.Bad, very bad.
Do the click test in absolute silence and keep a finger on the top of the solenoid to feel it. The solenoid plunger operates in oil that may muffle the click.
**The Durametric test is the fastest and most conclusive. Go to Actual Values. Rev to 3000 rpm. The timing should jump on the graph to 20+ for both Banks.Check your Deviation at the same time because this will give a hint of other issues that need attention(pads?)
A note for Durametric uses - there have been 3 recent updates to the software.Download the latest now.Unlikely it will work well without this. In particular "Activations" may not work and you need that for further prompting/testing of the suspect Solenoid.
Do not assume it is just the solenoid.It could(but less likely) be the Variocam Actuator($1000 !) The Solenoid alone is much cheaper but it is the labor !!! Be sure to get the correct side - yes, they are different !!!
The Solenoid replacement can be done with the engine in the car - easier on a 996 than a Boxster . First evaluate if there are other deferred repair tasks that require engine-drop.
Personally , I would not proceed until I had Durametric data to conclusively confirm the cam cover needs to come off. I am sure an Indie would agree.
I can't think why you would cause any damage by continuing to drive the car gently.Yes the power/torque will be weaker on one Bank but just to go to get the Durametric test(gently) should be O.K.BTW the clone Durametric - very cheap from China&/or on Fleabay - is junk.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
One issue to keep in mind re- engine drop - when preparing to replace the cam cover on the engine you must run a perfect 1mm bead of sealant all around. If this is applied clumsily,the excess drops off into the oil supply and can cause all manner of problems. Typical on bad cam cover jobs(Bank 1-cyl 1.2.3) is that you get the red oil pressure light - because a tiny piece of sealant plugs the 'feed' to the oil pressure sensor that sits on top of the cam cover .Good luck figuring that fault :-). It is much less likely that this will occur with the engine on a stand.
Last edited by Schnell Gelb; 04-29-2017 at 02:23 PM.
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hardtailer (12-14-2019)
04-29-2017, 08:08 PM
#5
Advanced
Thread Starter
good info
Thanks guys for the info. Monday I plan to talk with the Indy and see what my options really are and what actually makes up the 1700$ quick estimate they gave me. They said half labor, half parts, which seems high on the part side for just the solenoid. Must be the BC Tax(Being Canadian) ontop of the Porsche Tax. I looked up the solenoid from a Canadian Supplier (autopartsway.ca) and they want $615(cdn)$ just for a solenoid vs autoatlanta at $325(cnd). I hate to find out the cost of the actuator from a Canadian supplier...
On the other hand I've only owned the car 3 months and have no records so there is probably some deferred maintenance that could be done if the engine had to come out. I know there is an RMS leak identified by the orignal PPI. I'm not suffering any AOS problems, I have Tiptronic so no Cluctch to change and with the dual row IMS I'm not itching to change it. Is there any other out of car engine maintenance items to consider?
On the other hand I've only owned the car 3 months and have no records so there is probably some deferred maintenance that could be done if the engine had to come out. I know there is an RMS leak identified by the orignal PPI. I'm not suffering any AOS problems, I have Tiptronic so no Cluctch to change and with the dual row IMS I'm not itching to change it. Is there any other out of car engine maintenance items to consider?
04-29-2017, 10:25 PM
#6
Drifting
Be careful with the parts and Part numbers. Distinguish between :
1. The Solenoid -Bank 1 or Bank 2
2. The Variocam Actuator Bank 1 or Bank 2
3. The Variocam Actuator +Solenoid as a complete unit - Bank 1 or 2.
The prices will vary obviously .Use the part number, not the verbal description.
Don't buy an Actuator unless they have physically inspected it. Check the little spring at the end of the plunger is still there and that the P.O. hasn't muddled the parts/Banks
1. The Solenoid -Bank 1 or Bank 2
2. The Variocam Actuator Bank 1 or Bank 2
3. The Variocam Actuator +Solenoid as a complete unit - Bank 1 or 2.
The prices will vary obviously .Use the part number, not the verbal description.
Don't buy an Actuator unless they have physically inspected it. Check the little spring at the end of the plunger is still there and that the P.O. hasn't muddled the parts/Banks
05-01-2017, 11:28 AM
#7
Former Vendor
We've seen this issue before.
The most consistent way that we have identified it happens is that:
-the solenoid for the camshaft stops working properly and it eventually fails, then;
-the amperage on the wires increases and back feeds to the DME shorting out the computer
The most common codes for this failure are the ones already described as P1539, P1397 & P1341.
Most time the DME needs to be fixed. This is easy to tell just by the "burnt" smell coming from the unit.
Then the solenoid replacement job needs to be done as well.
The most consistent way that we have identified it happens is that:
-the solenoid for the camshaft stops working properly and it eventually fails, then;
-the amperage on the wires increases and back feeds to the DME shorting out the computer
The most common codes for this failure are the ones already described as P1539, P1397 & P1341.
Most time the DME needs to be fixed. This is easy to tell just by the "burnt" smell coming from the unit.
Then the solenoid replacement job needs to be done as well.
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hardtailer (12-14-2019)
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05-01-2017, 11:40 AM
#8
I had a P1341 on my car soon after purchasing. Cost me about $3000 to fix at a well-known indy here in DFW. The solenoid / actuator was $1500 just by itself. Cams and/or retainers had to be removed to replace the actuator. Some of that might be fuzzy as it's been almost 2 years ago.
05-01-2017, 11:42 AM
#9
Race Director
While the engine may run ok as long as the failure remains intermittent it can act up at any time and who wants to live with a car that can start running poorly at any time. Thus I would not want to continue to drive the car with this problem.
Also, at some point the failure will occur more often or become a hard failure and the engine can start to misfire as the DME adjusts the fueling to get the O2s sensor readings it expects but is unable to becaue of the VarioCam problem.
Also, at some point the failure will occur more often or become a hard failure and the engine can start to misfire as the DME adjusts the fueling to get the O2s sensor readings it expects but is unable to becaue of the VarioCam problem.
05-01-2017, 11:46 AM
#10
Race Director
I had a P1341 on my car soon after purchasing. Cost me about $3000 to fix at a well-known indy here in DFW. The solenoid / actuator was $1500 just by itself. Cams and/or retainers had to be removed to replace the actuator. Some of that might be fuzzy as it's been almost 2 years ago.
However, to get at the solenoid the camshaft cover had to come off. With the 996 my impression is this is easier to get at and replace than it is with my Boxster thus that $1700 estimate/quote seems "high". The solenoid is I'm sure going to run around $600 to $700 (or more) but I don't think there's $1000 worth of labor to replace it.
05-01-2017, 12:17 PM
#11
Drifting
The Post below from ECU Doctors is important because it explains a Mode of Failure that has not been noted before.
The only Resistance Test mentioned in the diy diagnostics was the 13 Ohm Test. The inference being there would be either the correct resistance or infinite resistance. No collateral damage. A much higher resistance that causes wiring harness and DME damage is alarming - and expensive.
The diagnosis seems simple enough - the DME Smell TEst. But by then damage has been done !
Thanks to ECU Doctors for the alert.
The only Resistance Test mentioned in the diy diagnostics was the 13 Ohm Test. The inference being there would be either the correct resistance or infinite resistance. No collateral damage. A much higher resistance that causes wiring harness and DME damage is alarming - and expensive.
The diagnosis seems simple enough - the DME Smell TEst. But by then damage has been done !
Thanks to ECU Doctors for the alert.
We've seen this issue before.
The most consistent way that we have identified it happens is that:
-the solenoid for the camshaft stops working properly and it eventually fails, then;
-the amperage on the wires increases and back feeds to the DME shorting out the computer
The most common codes for this failure are the ones already described as P1539, P1397 & P1341.
Most time the DME needs to be fixed. This is easy to tell just by the "burnt" smell coming from the unit.
Then the solenoid replacement job needs to be done as well.
The most consistent way that we have identified it happens is that:
-the solenoid for the camshaft stops working properly and it eventually fails, then;
-the amperage on the wires increases and back feeds to the DME shorting out the computer
The most common codes for this failure are the ones already described as P1539, P1397 & P1341.
Most time the DME needs to be fixed. This is easy to tell just by the "burnt" smell coming from the unit.
Then the solenoid replacement job needs to be done as well.
05-01-2017, 10:14 PM
#12
Advanced
Thread Starter
Parts
I spoke to the Indy today. The price for the solenoid alone was 800$. I asked if I could source my own parts and they had no issue with that. 6 hours labor was the rest. When I get some time tonight I know I've seen a parts list somewhere. I want understand the must do stuff and what is a good idea while you're there.
Ill try and get to the ECU and do the smell test as well.
Ill try and get to the ECU and do the smell test as well.
05-01-2017, 11:05 PM
#13
Advanced
Thread Starter
No burnt smell
So I just checked out the ECU, I pulled the Tiptronic module off and disconnected the main ECU connector and I could not smell anything remotely burnt or off. So I think that I'm safe there.
I'm constantly amazed by the quality of parts of this car. Just the carpeted foam ECU cover fits so perfectly and is so dense its unlike anything I've seen in any previous car I've owned.
Last comment, so if the solenoid has the chance to damage the ECU, and I need to drive the car to the shop, would it be a good idea to just disconnect the solenoid from the ECU before driving over?
I'm constantly amazed by the quality of parts of this car. Just the carpeted foam ECU cover fits so perfectly and is so dense its unlike anything I've seen in any previous car I've owned.
Last comment, so if the solenoid has the chance to damage the ECU, and I need to drive the car to the shop, would it be a good idea to just disconnect the solenoid from the ECU before driving over?
05-01-2017, 11:45 PM
#14
Advanced
Thread Starter
This is the parts list I've come up. This is assuming just changing the solenoid.
If just changing the solenoid would you change the 5th timing chain or the variocam pads?
Solenoid
Part #996-605-901-00
23x
Torx Screw 6X30
Part #999-385-003-01
3 x
Camshaft Seal
Part #996-104-215-54
If just changing the solenoid would you change the 5th timing chain or the variocam pads?
Solenoid
Part #996-605-901-00
23x
Torx Screw 6X30
Part #999-385-003-01
3 x
Camshaft Seal
Part #996-104-215-54
05-02-2017, 12:08 AM
#15
Drifting
So I just checked out the ECU, I pulled the Tiptronic module off and disconnected the main ECU connector and I could not smell anything remotely burnt or off. So I think that I'm safe there.
Did you take the cover off the DME ?
Last comment, so if the solenoid has the chance to damage the ECU, and I need to drive the car to the shop, would it be a good idea to just disconnect the solenoid from the ECU before driving over?
Did you take the cover off the DME ?
Last comment, so if the solenoid has the chance to damage the ECU, and I need to drive the car to the shop, would it be a good idea to just disconnect the solenoid from the ECU before driving over?
Once the cam cover is off you will be able to see if the pads need replacing.If one Bank is worn, the other will probably need replacement also.
The recommended sealant for the camcover is Dreibond. Your Indy will tell you what he uses- go with that because then he is responsible for any big leaks.Make sure (without offending his knowledge) he uses the 1mm bead technique.
When buying the Solenoid remember there is a big seal that in theory should be replaced but maybe if it is perfect ,a little sealant would work ? To remind you about getting the right part # for the Bank you are working on !
Try RND Euro Parts as a source?
Hope this helps & good luck !