99 C2 Code P1531 Variocam Solenoid
#31
Drifting
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dporto makes a valuable and obscure point. In the many looong threads on this Variocam issues,the hard reset has very rarely been mentioned.Porschetech 3 iirc also spoke of it.
The controversial aspect is - hard rset is an easy,quick,non-intrusive thing to do before you start the awful job of removing camshafts.Yes you may have to do a drive cycle.
If you do remove camshafts, make sure you ask for a potential while-I-am-in-there list
The controversial aspect is - hard rset is an easy,quick,non-intrusive thing to do before you start the awful job of removing camshafts.Yes you may have to do a drive cycle.
If you do remove camshafts, make sure you ask for a potential while-I-am-in-there list
#32
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Thanks. Here's what a different mechanic (Midwest Performance gave me for diagnosis: "Interrogation and inspection revealed bank 1 cam adjustment fault and misfire flags for all cylinders; bank 2 oil loss, but not bank 1. Continuity tests at bank 1 solenoid ok. Advise customer internal fault at solenoid, or actuator fault tests recommended, requires removal of timing cover; measurement of cam deviation over load ranges recommended."
Question: I see posts on how to replace the solenoid. Is this really a 6-7-hr job? And does it really require locking the crank/cams (as described here: http://986forum.com/forums/performan...iming-m96.html).
I was told by Midwest Performance Cars (Chicago, IL) that I was looking at a $2k-$3k deal. They said that by the time they pulled the camshaft cover off, they could discover things like - stretch chains and worn tensioner pads. And at that point, if that was the case, they might as well take the other side off and do the full pads replacement, etc. I guess I'm trying to understand if it's just a solenoid ($500 one at that, which has to make it into the top 10 most expensive solenoids of all time), or if they are trying to prepare me for much bigger issues. I understand tensioner pads, and if my car needs it, that's fine. But I don't recall these M96s having this as a common issue at 61,000 miles. Also, their labor rate is $160/hr and trying to keep my costs in check here.
Question: I see posts on how to replace the solenoid. Is this really a 6-7-hr job? And does it really require locking the crank/cams (as described here: http://986forum.com/forums/performan...iming-m96.html).
I was told by Midwest Performance Cars (Chicago, IL) that I was looking at a $2k-$3k deal. They said that by the time they pulled the camshaft cover off, they could discover things like - stretch chains and worn tensioner pads. And at that point, if that was the case, they might as well take the other side off and do the full pads replacement, etc. I guess I'm trying to understand if it's just a solenoid ($500 one at that, which has to make it into the top 10 most expensive solenoids of all time), or if they are trying to prepare me for much bigger issues. I understand tensioner pads, and if my car needs it, that's fine. But I don't recall these M96s having this as a common issue at 61,000 miles. Also, their labor rate is $160/hr and trying to keep my costs in check here.
#33
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#34
#35
Captain Obvious
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Yes, it will tell you if the solenoid is getting power when it needs to. BUT the shop should do the same too before start replacing parts that are based only on the trouble codes. A good mechanic will investigate as much as it takes to be 100% sure where the problem is and ONLY replaces that part. Regular mechanics will start throwing parts at it based on the trouble codes and the owner of the car will eat the cost. Now if the valve covers come off and the cam tensioner pads are even just slightly worn then might as well replace them since the entire mechanism will be out anyway. They parts are only $25 and labour is mere minutes. BUT I would not go and replace the other side. Your shop should prepare you for the worst case scenario but they should also explain that a proper diagnosis is necessary and that takes time. Time that you are expected to pay for. It is very difficult to get a proper estimate when there could be multiple causes to a problem.
#36
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Yes, it will tell you if the solenoid is getting power when it needs to. BUT the shop should do the same too before start replacing parts that are based only on the trouble codes. A good mechanic will investigate as much as it takes to be 100% sure where the problem is and ONLY replaces that part. Regular mechanics will start throwing parts at it based on the trouble codes and the owner of the car will eat the cost. Now if the valve covers come off and the cam tensioner pads are even just slightly worn then might as well replace them since the entire mechanism will be out anyway. They parts are only $25 and labour is mere minutes. BUT I would not go and replace the other side. Your shop should prepare you for the worst case scenario but they should also explain that a proper diagnosis is necessary and that takes time. Time that you are expected to pay for. It is very difficult to get a proper estimate when there could be multiple causes to a problem.
#37
Captain Obvious
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I thought the entire thing is sold as one piece but I never had to buy one so this could be wrong. If they sell the solenoid separately and the pads look good then yes, only replace the solenoid.
#38
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You can buy just the solenoid by itself for $500 (996-605-901-00-OEM left bank, 1-3). But if the actuator is bad, after replacing the solenoid, one would have to re-buy the solenoid if it didn't fix the problem. With the labor involved, this is why it's really important to figure out exactly what's not working.
I can't believe how expensive this part is. I bought my 1976 Honda CB motorcycle for the same price as this one part.
#39
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Well, you are right that the whole thing is available for $1299 (996-105-051-58-OEM, left bank only, https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_In...VSVSI=0896.htm)
You can buy just the solenoid by itself for $500 (996-605-901-00-OEM left bank, 1-3). But if the actuator is bad, after replacing the solenoid, one would have to re-buy the solenoid if it didn't fix the problem. With the labor involved, this is why it's really important to figure out exactly what's not working.
I can't believe how expensive this part is. I bought my 1976 Honda CB motorcycle for the same price as this one part.
You can buy just the solenoid by itself for $500 (996-605-901-00-OEM left bank, 1-3). But if the actuator is bad, after replacing the solenoid, one would have to re-buy the solenoid if it didn't fix the problem. With the labor involved, this is why it's really important to figure out exactly what's not working.
I can't believe how expensive this part is. I bought my 1976 Honda CB motorcycle for the same price as this one part.
#40
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Since I already hijacked the OP’s thread with my own, nearly identical issue, I dipped the car off today for repair. They are reporting cam deviation “the worst they’ve ever seen” at 27 degrees. “Cannot believe it even runs,” they said. Strange, since Durametric has always reported only about 2 degrees, maybe 3 worst case. They are going to have to investigate further, but have said not to be surprised if this becomes a can of worms at 60k miles and 20 years on the it.
They are going to remove & disassemble engine oil filter, replace engine filter & set oil level to spec. remove and replace cam plugs to verify camshaft timing is within spec, inspect cam solenoid for function/sticking. report results with recommendations.
They are going to remove & disassemble engine oil filter, replace engine filter & set oil level to spec. remove and replace cam plugs to verify camshaft timing is within spec, inspect cam solenoid for function/sticking. report results with recommendations.
#41
Drifting
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So they physically measured 27 degrees but Durametric said 2 degrees? That is am alarming discrepancy since we rely entirely on Durametric for that Actual value measurement.. There has to be an interesting explanation for that !!. Guessing some failure of the chain tensioner.Hopefully they check both banks.And such low miles.
Since I already hijacked the OP’s thread with my own, nearly identical issue, I dipped the car off today for repair. They are reporting cam deviation “the worst they’ve ever seen” at 27 degrees. “Cannot believe it even runs,” they said. Strange, since Durametric has always reported only about 2 degrees, maybe 3 worst case. They are going to have to investigate further, but have said not to be surprised if this becomes a can of worms at 60k miles and 20 years on the it.
They are going to remove & disassemble engine oil filter, replace engine filter & set oil level to spec. remove and replace cam plugs to verify camshaft timing is within spec, inspect cam solenoid for function/sticking. report results with recommendations.
They are going to remove & disassemble engine oil filter, replace engine filter & set oil level to spec. remove and replace cam plugs to verify camshaft timing is within spec, inspect cam solenoid for function/sticking. report results with recommendations.
#42
Captain Obvious
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Since I already hijacked the OP’s thread with my own, nearly identical issue, I dipped the car off today for repair. They are reporting cam deviation “the worst they’ve ever seen” at 27 degrees. “Cannot believe it even runs,” they said. Strange, since Durametric has always reported only about 2 degrees, maybe 3 worst case. They are going to have to investigate further, but have said not to be surprised if this becomes a can of worms at 60k miles and 20 years on the it.
They are going to remove & disassemble engine oil filter, replace engine filter & set oil level to spec. remove and replace cam plugs to verify camshaft timing is within spec, inspect cam solenoid for function/sticking. report results with recommendations.
They are going to remove & disassemble engine oil filter, replace engine filter & set oil level to spec. remove and replace cam plugs to verify camshaft timing is within spec, inspect cam solenoid for function/sticking. report results with recommendations.
#43
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#44
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So they physically measured 27 degrees but Durametric said 2 degrees? That is am alarming discrepancy since we rely entirely on Durametric for that Actual value measurement.. There has to be an interesting explanation for that !!. Guessing some failure of the chain tensioner.Hopefully they check both banks.And such low miles.
For what it’s worth regarding Durametric, Al UscinskI who works for Chicago Performance and Tuning said that he never uses Durametric because he couldn’t trust it. He said this after I told him that I’ve check my cam deviations in the past and they were fine. He said he has been screwed before not using the right tools. This is the first I’ve heard the Durametric couldn’t be trusted. But if the DME is simply reporting to Durametric, how can we fault Durametric for this. I also wonder how the timing could be that far off with an interference engine and not have caused damage.
#45
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Well that sucks with your car. Hard to believe that the Durametric can't read the deviation.....I know when I got my car, I used a generic scan tool that does many things on many cars (like a Snap On type device) and then I got the Durametric later (the first scan tool wasn't mine), and they both read essentially the same thing. I have yet to check my deviations from last year.
Let us know what they find. Best of luck!
Let us know what they find. Best of luck!
They are going to need to manual check timing now instead of going off the measured values from PIWIS...
For what it’s worth regarding Durametric, Al UscinskI who works for Chicago Performance and Tuning said that he never uses Durametric because he couldn’t trust it. He said this after I told him that I’ve check my cam deviations in the past and they were fine. He said he has been screwed before not using the right tools. This is the first I’ve heard the Durametric couldn’t be trusted. But if the DME is simply reporting to Durametric, how can we fault Durametric for this. I also wonder how the timing could be that far off with an interference engine and not have caused damage.
For what it’s worth regarding Durametric, Al UscinskI who works for Chicago Performance and Tuning said that he never uses Durametric because he couldn’t trust it. He said this after I told him that I’ve check my cam deviations in the past and they were fine. He said he has been screwed before not using the right tools. This is the first I’ve heard the Durametric couldn’t be trusted. But if the DME is simply reporting to Durametric, how can we fault Durametric for this. I also wonder how the timing could be that far off with an interference engine and not have caused damage.