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I'm having the full assembly replaced on bank 1. The car runs well despite the CEL code, but he determined that sometimes the tensioner is not working. The solenoid appears to be working most, if not all the time, or at least trying to work and the thinking is that the tensioner assembly is the problem. So, since it costs so damned much to get inside the cam cover on these engines, I don't want to take a chance by replacing only some of the parts. I try to keep this car very well maintained.
I will hold off on doing the other side since it appears to be fine, and I couldn't find anyone on line who had both fail (ie, fixed one, and then a week later the other failed, that sort of thing).
Anyway, my Indy is a very well respected shop. Lead tech was supposedly the #1 factory tech some years ago. All I know is that they are honest and trustworthy, and that they also build and service race cars, many of which are 911's, but not all. They know what they are doing.
Oh, and the tech said when he was at the dealerships years ago, they always replaced both sides at the same time even if only one side was failing, but that was likely when it was covered by warranty!
Just an update on this: I picked up the car this weekend. The job was 14 hours of labor!!! He was able to do the work with the engine in the car but they did drop it a few inches, removed the rear bumper and the muffler for access.
The car is runny REALLY well, seems faster, if that's possible. Might just be the cool weather or that the car missed me driving it for these 2 weeks. :-)
I REALLY hope the other side lasts a long time because 14 hours of labor is a lot of time... AND MONEY! NY rates ~ $130/hr. ouch. My indy showed me all the factory specialty tools he had to use from his engine rebuild kit. This is not a job for a shade-tree mechanic IMO. Naturally, keeping the timing right when doing this job is critical. I HATE that I cannot do as much as I would normally do on my cars. I've had my Pontiac engines down to the short block before - heads, cams, etc. But without decent access to things and not having a real lift (I have a QuickJack only), it just sucks. Who the hell designed this thing with 5 timing chains! sheesh.
Anyway, hopefully I'm good for a while. I do enjoy the car.
Just an update on this: I picked up the car this weekend. The job was 14 hours of labor!!! He was able to do the work with the engine in the car but they did drop it a few inches, removed the rear bumper and the muffler for access.
The car is runny REALLY well, seems faster, if that's possible. Might just be the cool weather or that the car missed me driving it for these 2 weeks. :-)
I REALLY hope the other side lasts a long time because 14 hours of labor is a lot of time... AND MONEY! NY rates ~ $130/hr. ouch. My indy showed me all the factory specialty tools he had to use from his engine rebuild kit. This is not a job for a shade-tree mechanic IMO. Naturally, keeping the timing right when doing this job is critical. I HATE that I cannot do as much as I would normally do on my cars. I've had my Pontiac engines down to the short block before - heads, cams, etc. But without decent access to things and not having a real lift (I have a QuickJack only), it just sucks. Who the hell designed this thing with 5 timing chains! sheesh.
Anyway, hopefully I'm good for a while. I do enjoy the car.
I know, such a ‘simple’ solenoid is not so simple to replace. Like a simple heart valve .
People often complain about the high cost for these cars, such as a $15-$25k engine rebuild. But I was just quoted $10k for a new convertible top by a Porsche dealer. That included $5700 for the new top.
I think your other side will be fine for awhile, I wouldn’t even think about it. We’ll likely have many other costly repairs coming later that won’t have much to do with a solenoid .
It’s certainly possible your car is faster now that it’s running perfectly. A bad solenoid, despite the error codes and misfires, still cannot allow the engine to move the proper amount of air at certain given RPMs for that bank of cylinders. A solenoid stuck open/activated will have limited power between 1300-5120 RPM. A solenoid stuck closed might have a rough idle and limited power above 5120RPM. I’m not sure how you were driving your car with the error codes, but the engine makes the most power between 5120-6800RPM.
I had a car that threw a code on bank 1 and I took the engine out for a bunch of other things. While we were at it, I changed both assemblies for both sides because access is so much better. The dealer from whom I bought the parts made a mistake and sold me two identical assemblies (they are different one side to the other) and the car went back together but did not run right. So I had to do the job over with the engine in the car.
Fourteen hours is a fair number if done with engin in. With some experience, a good tech can do it in one day. The dealer hourly rate in this area is $240 / hr. So your $140 is a good deal. There are a $500 worth of tools for this job.
The car was running perfectly fine, really good actually. Then the CEL came on. It was still running fine. I read the codes, cleared them and went for a ride. It drove the same, which was fine, but after about an hour, the CEL came back on. That's when I made the appt with my Indy.
I always run the car through the entire tach ("I paid for the entire tach, I'm gonna use the entire tach!" lol ). I don't beat on it all the time, but I do run it both mellow and I like to wind out a few gears getting onto the highway (hell, that's why I drive these types of cars!).
The indy said at first when they checked it, the vario was working ok, then it was sort of sticking. so I guess for the last 2 years or so, it's possible it wasn't running 100%, but it NEVER had a rough idle.
Anyway, I just worry about the other bank's chain guides since this bank was pretty worn at only 39k miles. It's just that it's a lot of money to get in there as a preventive item. On the other hand, the engine IS MUCH quieter now, especially at startup. And it wasn't bad before! The lead tech at my indy's shop who works on my car said the motor sounds good. He said to just keep an ear on it and bring it back if I notice more chain noise starting. (He was a former Porsche tech who was supposedly like the #1 guy in the country years ago - like when these cars were still under warranty :-) He's done several of the vario tensioners under warranty. He said he always did them in pairs, but then again, the cost was covered by warranty!
Hopefully I'm good for a while. I don't like dropping big dollars out of the blue without at least doing upgrades. I mean, spending $3+k on a muscle car buys a lot of added HP.
This job is totally doable by someone like you that have engine wrenching experience. The cam/timing locking tools can be bought online for not a lot of money and when the work is done, you can sell them to recuperate some of the cost. You already have a lift so don't be afraid to tackle it. This engine is not that much different than most modern DOHC variable timing engines. The only unique thing is the cam caps are cast into the valve cover. Otherwise they are the same. 14hrs is a lot of time for a pro that did this many times to take but what can you do. Get the locking tools and swap out the tensioner solenoid pads over the winter and you will feel better about it. The pads are only $40/pair.
I know, such a ‘simple’ solenoid is not so simple to replace. Like a simple heart valve .
People often complain about the high cost for these cars, such as a $15-$25k engine rebuild. But I was just quoted $10k for a new convertible top by a Porsche dealer. That included $5700 for the new top.
Holy Molly !.......I got mine replaced for 1500.00 (all in).....obviously, not at the dealer, I purchased mine from an online vendor and had someone install it......
Holy Molly !.......I got mine replaced for 1500.00 (all in).....obviously, not at the dealer, I purchased mine from an online vendor and had someone install it......
Im with you, I’m going aftermarket and a local shop that has very high ratings for about $2k.
The car was running perfectly fine, really good actually. Then the CEL came on. It was still running fine. I read the codes, cleared them and went for a ride. It drove the same, which was fine, but after about an hour, the CEL came back on. That's when I made the appt with my Indy.
I always run the car through the entire tach ("I paid for the entire tach, I'm gonna use the entire tach!" lol ). I don't beat on it all the time, but I do run it both mellow and I like to wind out a few gears getting onto the highway (hell, that's why I drive these types of cars!).
The indy said at first when they checked it, the vario was working ok, then it was sort of sticking. so I guess for the last 2 years or so, it's possible it wasn't running 100%, but it NEVER had a rough idle.
Anyway, I just worry about the other bank's chain guides since this bank was pretty worn at only 39k miles. It's just that it's a lot of money to get in there as a preventive item. On the other hand, the engine IS MUCH quieter now, especially at startup. And it wasn't bad before! The lead tech at my indy's shop who works on my car said the motor sounds good. He said to just keep an ear on it and bring it back if I notice more chain noise starting. (He was a former Porsche tech who was supposedly like the #1 guy in the country years ago - like when these cars were still under warranty :-) He's done several of the vario tensioners under warranty. He said he always did them in pairs, but then again, the cost was covered by warranty!
Hopefully I'm good for a while. I don't like dropping big dollars out of the blue without at least doing upgrades. I mean, spending $3+k on a muscle car buys a lot of added HP.
My tensioner pads looked OK at 62,000 miles, and I keep track of my cam deviations, which are about -2 away from each other (+/-6 is the limit)
What tool do you need to track cam deviations? I have a pretty decent OBDII reader (it reads SRS/airbag and stuff). I forget brand right now. It reads lots of stuff that I don't know what they mean ;-)
What tool do you need to track cam deviations? I have a pretty decent OBDII reader (it reads SRS/airbag and stuff). I forget brand right now. It reads lots of stuff that I don't know what they mean ;-)
11-14-2019, 12:27 AM
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