Shavings from old failed IMS (??) now showing up?
03-18-2014, 04:48 PM
#152
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
Wait a munite! If the bypass puts the oil back in the sump and not divert it around the filter, doesn't then the engine will be starving of oil and destroy itself? What am I missing here?
03-18-2014, 04:58 PM
#153
CHEEZUS CHREIST!!! (sic)
Just when I thought it safe to come back to Rennlist, this type of hysteria is up again.
I'm a trained manufacturing and mechanical engineer. Oil filters on most high performance engines have bypass valves because unfiltered OIL is better than not enough oil from a clogged filter. That's why our car has bypass valves. Believe it or not, 99% of all M96 owners WHO NEVER VISIT RENNLIST or who have NEVER HEARD of Jake Raby or LN Engineering have owned and run M96 and M97.1 cars for YEARS without all these aftermarket 'improvement' parts. They follow factory maintenance schedules on factory spec oil and do PERFECTLY FINE. And you know what else? the factory oil filter mechanism of removable cartridge filters - standard on almost every other German car I've EVER seen, has the benefit of reduced environmental impact because dirty oil filled spin filters end up in land fills and leaching into the ground.
Now, we, by nature being on an enthusiast site will be a little more OCD over our cars than the general population, and those people with problems will naturally come to the Internet to seek out answers / solace.
If it satisfies your OCD nature and you are 100% sure your oil filter will NEVER impede the proper flow of oil to the engine, and you are 100% sure you are going to change the oil every 5K miles, sure - go ahead get the LNE spin on oil filter adapter that eliminates bypass valve if it helps you sleep better at night.
BUT, I totally reject this nonsense and hysteria that if you don't buy their $140 kit that your engine is going to grenade.
Just when I thought it safe to come back to Rennlist, this type of hysteria is up again.
I'm a trained manufacturing and mechanical engineer. Oil filters on most high performance engines have bypass valves because unfiltered OIL is better than not enough oil from a clogged filter. That's why our car has bypass valves. Believe it or not, 99% of all M96 owners WHO NEVER VISIT RENNLIST or who have NEVER HEARD of Jake Raby or LN Engineering have owned and run M96 and M97.1 cars for YEARS without all these aftermarket 'improvement' parts. They follow factory maintenance schedules on factory spec oil and do PERFECTLY FINE. And you know what else? the factory oil filter mechanism of removable cartridge filters - standard on almost every other German car I've EVER seen, has the benefit of reduced environmental impact because dirty oil filled spin filters end up in land fills and leaching into the ground.
Now, we, by nature being on an enthusiast site will be a little more OCD over our cars than the general population, and those people with problems will naturally come to the Internet to seek out answers / solace.
If it satisfies your OCD nature and you are 100% sure your oil filter will NEVER impede the proper flow of oil to the engine, and you are 100% sure you are going to change the oil every 5K miles, sure - go ahead get the LNE spin on oil filter adapter that eliminates bypass valve if it helps you sleep better at night.
BUT, I totally reject this nonsense and hysteria that if you don't buy their $140 kit that your engine is going to grenade.
I often find these days that Rennlist is often about "Analysis Paralysis" type mentality.
03-18-2014, 05:00 PM
#154
Instructor
Thread Starter
Some of these cost reduction decisions are perfectly fine and some have proven not to be. We don't know the internal politics that resulted in each decision. I'm not going to judge because I have no basis to. It is what it is and we manage the risks we know about, unfortunately sometimes expensively.
03-18-2014, 05:08 PM
#155
Rat Balls
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Scottsdale AZ, USA
Posts: 3,636
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CHEEZUS CHREIST!!! (sic)
Just when I thought it safe to come back to Rennlist, this type of hysteria is up again.
I'm a trained manufacturing and mechanical engineer. Oil filters on most high performance engines have bypass valves because unfiltered OIL is better than not enough oil from a clogged filter. That's why our car has bypass valves. Believe it or not, 99% of all M96 owners WHO NEVER VISIT RENNLIST or who have NEVER HEARD of Jake Raby or LN Engineering have owned and run M96 and M97.1 cars for YEARS without all these aftermarket 'improvement' parts. They follow factory maintenance schedules on factory spec oil and do PERFECTLY FINE. And you know what else? the factory oil filter mechanism of removable cartridge filters - standard on almost every other German car I've EVER seen, has the benefit of reduced environmental impact because dirty oil filled spin filters end up in land fills and leaching into the ground.
Now, we, by nature being on an enthusiast site will be a little more OCD over our cars than the general population, and those people with problems will naturally come to the Internet to seek out answers / solace.
If it satisfies your OCD nature and you are 100% sure your oil filter will NEVER impede the proper flow of oil to the engine, and you are 100% sure you are going to change the oil every 5K miles, sure - go ahead get the LNE spin on oil filter adapter that eliminates bypass valve if it helps you sleep better at night.
BUT, I totally reject this nonsense and hysteria that if you don't buy their $140 kit that your engine is going to grenade.
Just when I thought it safe to come back to Rennlist, this type of hysteria is up again.
I'm a trained manufacturing and mechanical engineer. Oil filters on most high performance engines have bypass valves because unfiltered OIL is better than not enough oil from a clogged filter. That's why our car has bypass valves. Believe it or not, 99% of all M96 owners WHO NEVER VISIT RENNLIST or who have NEVER HEARD of Jake Raby or LN Engineering have owned and run M96 and M97.1 cars for YEARS without all these aftermarket 'improvement' parts. They follow factory maintenance schedules on factory spec oil and do PERFECTLY FINE. And you know what else? the factory oil filter mechanism of removable cartridge filters - standard on almost every other German car I've EVER seen, has the benefit of reduced environmental impact because dirty oil filled spin filters end up in land fills and leaching into the ground.
Now, we, by nature being on an enthusiast site will be a little more OCD over our cars than the general population, and those people with problems will naturally come to the Internet to seek out answers / solace.
If it satisfies your OCD nature and you are 100% sure your oil filter will NEVER impede the proper flow of oil to the engine, and you are 100% sure you are going to change the oil every 5K miles, sure - go ahead get the LNE spin on oil filter adapter that eliminates bypass valve if it helps you sleep better at night.
BUT, I totally reject this nonsense and hysteria that if you don't buy their $140 kit that your engine is going to grenade.
03-18-2014, 05:16 PM
#156
Instructor
Thread Starter
Believe it or not, 99% of all M96 owners WHO NEVER VISIT RENNLIST or who have NEVER HEARD of Jake Raby or LN Engineering have owned and run M96 and M97.1 cars for YEARS without all these aftermarket 'improvement' parts. They follow factory maintenance schedules on factory spec oil and do PERFECTLY FINE.
"I can make up statistics better and faster than you can!" (Ref:
Why the statement of facts from the results of my engine's analysis provokes such hysteria is beyond me.
03-18-2014, 05:20 PM
#157
Pro
If it satisfies your OCD nature and you are 100% sure your oil filter will NEVER impede the proper flow of oil to the engine, and you are 100% sure you are going to change the oil every 5K miles, sure - go ahead get the LNE spin on oil filter adapter that eliminates bypass valve if it helps you sleep better at night.
So I'm OCD by nature, I replace the oil every 12 months which will always be under 5,000 miles, however how do I know that the oil filter will NEVER impede proper oil flow?
Last edited by 318touring; 03-18-2014 at 05:28 PM. Reason: missed an important word
03-18-2014, 05:31 PM
#158
To paraphrase:
"I can make up statistics better and faster than you can!" (Ref: http://www.amazon.com/How-Lie-Statis.../dp/0393310728
Why the statement of facts from the results of my engine's analysis provokes such hysteria is beyond me.
"I can make up statistics better and faster than you can!" (Ref: http://www.amazon.com/How-Lie-Statis.../dp/0393310728
Why the statement of facts from the results of my engine's analysis provokes such hysteria is beyond me.
I can certainly understand your position as you must be one of the 39 members on this forum that has actually experienced an IMS failure. Now the other 175,223 owners, I'm not sure on where they stand on this.
03-18-2014, 05:35 PM
#159
Three Wheelin'
The way to keep a reality / sanity check - go visit your local Porsche dealer once in a while.
And you will see on Monday or Wed mornings, a line of M96 and M97 cars in for routine maintenance / service, and other repairs - these owners - even when out of warranty, continue to take their cars in on scheduled service intervals. Then go talk to these owners while they're waiting for their Cayman or Cayenne loaner or just enjoying the free coffee - and they've NEVER heard of Rennlist, NEVER heard of LNE, Never heard of IMS, Never heard of Motul - they live blissful lives ignorant of Internet driven hysteria.
I go twice a year to the P car dealership for track preparation and tech inspection for DE event sign off, and brake fluid changes after DE season, and stuff that I can't wrench on my own.
And you will see on Monday or Wed mornings, a line of M96 and M97 cars in for routine maintenance / service, and other repairs - these owners - even when out of warranty, continue to take their cars in on scheduled service intervals. Then go talk to these owners while they're waiting for their Cayman or Cayenne loaner or just enjoying the free coffee - and they've NEVER heard of Rennlist, NEVER heard of LNE, Never heard of IMS, Never heard of Motul - they live blissful lives ignorant of Internet driven hysteria.
I go twice a year to the P car dealership for track preparation and tech inspection for DE event sign off, and brake fluid changes after DE season, and stuff that I can't wrench on my own.
03-18-2014, 05:43 PM
#160
There can't be a scenario where bypassed oil is returned to the sump, only to be picked up again, bypassed, and returned to the sump.
It has to continue to the oil cooler, and then to the rest of the internals as if it were normal operations...except the oil wasn't filtered.
To wit:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...t-diagram.html
Had to be a typo...
It has to continue to the oil cooler, and then to the rest of the internals as if it were normal operations...except the oil wasn't filtered.
To wit:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...t-diagram.html
Had to be a typo...
03-18-2014, 06:07 PM
#161
Pro
Then go talk to these owners while they're waiting for their Cayman or Cayenne loaner or just enjoying the free coffee - and they've NEVER heard of Rennlist, NEVER heard of LNE, Never heard of IMS, Never heard of Motul - they live blissful lives ignorant of Internet driven hysteria.
You mean you get free coffee at your dealer? I get to stand in a dingy shed being ignored by everyone. Luckily I didn't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on my car so I didn't feel cheated.
03-18-2014, 08:36 PM
#162
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
There can't be a scenario where bypassed oil is returned to the sump, only to be picked up again, bypassed, and returned to the sump.
It has to continue to the oil cooler, and then to the rest of the internals as if it were normal operations...except the oil wasn't filtered.
To wit:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...t-diagram.html
Had to be a typo...
It has to continue to the oil cooler, and then to the rest of the internals as if it were normal operations...except the oil wasn't filtered.
To wit:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...t-diagram.html
Had to be a typo...
03-18-2014, 08:36 PM
#163
The spin-on filters also have a bypass feature, I believe, but it is internal to the filter, not separate as with the OEM setup. This sound correct?
03-18-2014, 08:43 PM
#164
03-18-2014, 09:43 PM
#165
Instructor
Thread Starter
The "usual" approach has the relief path back into the sump, essentially a short circuit around the pump. All oil is still filtered.
The Porsche design short circuits the filter, delivering unfiltered oil at high pressure to the internal bearings.
If I'm reading this correctly, this is clearly an important difference. Both achieve a reduction of differential pressure at the filter, but Porsche's design introduces debris-laden oil into the engine. The upside of Porsche's design is that oil is delivered into the engine even if highly viscous. Is this a good tradeoff? Nobody here without direct, applicable data can answer that authoritatively.