why is the 993 worth so much more than a 996?
06-15-2007, 03:06 AM
#61
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Originally Posted by BruceP
They gave a Nobel prize to an economist a few years ago for proving that value is subjective and that markets are not 'ultimately wise'. 993s are worth more than most 996s because the people who bought them said they are.
That said, I'm looking to replace my 964 with a 996 as my daily driver, I hear they can be had on the cheap.
The 997 looks amazingly similar to the 993, IMO.
06-15-2007, 07:54 AM
#62
Originally Posted by Kevin H. in Atl..
Actually, the 993 sales figures I have seen are approx 49,000 sold. Porsche sold somewhere around 190,000 996's, and it being a later car, probably more of these 190,000 cars are still on the road. Thats almost 388% more 996's than 993's. These are figures are worldwide. To get approximate N. America, divide each number by two.
This is substantial.
This is substantial.
I paid about $70K for my 993 and sold it six years and 30K miles later for $55K. So a 20% depreciation in six years was by far the best that I ever achieved with any car that I owned. Actually when I advertised the car for $55K, I fully expected to have to reduce the price considerably, but the buyer loved the car's color, the way it was equipped, and the excellent condition of the car. So he paid the asking price without hesitation, and the way the prices are holding on 993s in today's market, he may be able to sell it for no less than $50K.
As far as why the 993 is holding its price so well, I'm in the camp that it's because it is an air cooled car and there aren't many of them available. As far as performance is concerned, it was a great car in its day but the last ones were built ten years ago. So it would be unreasonble to expect it to compete with a 997 or even a 996 for that matter. But I expect that a car's power doesn't mean much to 993 buyers. It's probably the way the 993 looks and handles, and of course the feeling that the 993 is the last 911 to be true to the original 911 concept: light weight, air cooled, no frills sports car.
06-15-2007, 08:56 AM
#63
Originally Posted by Kevin H. in Atl..
Actually, the 993 sales figures I have seen are approx 49,000 sold. Porsche sold somewhere around 190,000 996's, and it being a later car, probably more of these 190,000 cars are still on the road. Thats almost 388% more 996's than 993's. These are figures are worldwide. To get approximate N. America, divide each number by two.
This is substantial.
This is substantial.
06-15-2007, 08:59 AM
#64
Originally Posted by fast1
Kevin - How many 986s were built? My guess would be that it would be comparable to the 996 output. So you have by Porsche's standards a tremendous number of cars that have the same front end, and exclusivity may be an important factor in the minds of many 911 buyers.
I paid about $70K for my 993 and sold it six years and 30K miles later for $55K. So a 20% depreciation in six years was by far the best that I ever achieved with any car that I owned. Actually when I advertised the car for $55K, I fully expected to have to reduce the price considerably, but the buyer loved the car's color, the way it was equipped, and the excellent condition of the car. So he paid the asking price without hesitation, and the way the prices are holding on 993s in today's market, he may be able to sell it for no less than $50K.
As far as why the 993 is holding its price so well, I'm in the camp that it's because it is an air cooled car and there aren't many of them available. As far as performance is concerned, it was a great car in its day but the last ones were built ten years ago. So it would be unreasonble to expect it to compete with a 997 or even a 996 for that matter. But I expect that a car's power doesn't mean much to 993 buyers. It's probably the way the 993 looks and handles, and of course the feeling that the 993 is the last 911 to be true to the original 911 concept: light weight, air cooled, no frills sports car.
I paid about $70K for my 993 and sold it six years and 30K miles later for $55K. So a 20% depreciation in six years was by far the best that I ever achieved with any car that I owned. Actually when I advertised the car for $55K, I fully expected to have to reduce the price considerably, but the buyer loved the car's color, the way it was equipped, and the excellent condition of the car. So he paid the asking price without hesitation, and the way the prices are holding on 993s in today's market, he may be able to sell it for no less than $50K.
As far as why the 993 is holding its price so well, I'm in the camp that it's because it is an air cooled car and there aren't many of them available. As far as performance is concerned, it was a great car in its day but the last ones were built ten years ago. So it would be unreasonble to expect it to compete with a 997 or even a 996 for that matter. But I expect that a car's power doesn't mean much to 993 buyers. It's probably the way the 993 looks and handles, and of course the feeling that the 993 is the last 911 to be true to the original 911 concept: light weight, air cooled, no frills sports car.
06-15-2007, 09:02 AM
#65
Originally Posted by fast1
So it would be unreasonble to expect it to compete with a 997 or even a 996 for that matter. But I expect that a car's power doesn't mean much to 993 buyers. It's probably the way the 993 looks and handles, and of course the feeling that the 993 is the last 911 to be true to the original 911 concept: light weight, air cooled, no frills sports car.
06-15-2007, 09:04 AM
#66
Originally Posted by fast1
Kevin - How many 986s were built? My guess would be that it would be comparable to the 996 output. So you have by Porsche's standards a tremendous number of cars that have the same front end, and exclusivity may be an important factor in the minds of many 911 buyers.
I paid about $70K for my 993 and sold it six years and 30K miles later for $55K. So a 20% depreciation in six years was by far the best that I ever achieved with any car that I owned. Actually when I advertised the car for $55K, I fully expected to have to reduce the price considerably, but the buyer loved the car's color, the way it was equipped, and the excellent condition of the car. So he paid the asking price without hesitation, and the way the prices are holding on 993s in today's market, he may be able to sell it for no less than $50K.
As far as why the 993 is holding its price so well, I'm in the camp that it's because it is an air cooled car and there aren't many of them available. As far as performance is concerned, it was a great car in its day but the last ones were built ten years ago. So it would be unreasonble to expect it to compete with a 997 or even a 996 for that matter. But I expect that a car's power doesn't mean much to 993 buyers. It's probably the way the 993 looks and handles, and of course the feeling that the 993 is the last 911 to be true to the original 911 concept: light weight, air cooled, no frills sports car.
I paid about $70K for my 993 and sold it six years and 30K miles later for $55K. So a 20% depreciation in six years was by far the best that I ever achieved with any car that I owned. Actually when I advertised the car for $55K, I fully expected to have to reduce the price considerably, but the buyer loved the car's color, the way it was equipped, and the excellent condition of the car. So he paid the asking price without hesitation, and the way the prices are holding on 993s in today's market, he may be able to sell it for no less than $50K.
As far as why the 993 is holding its price so well, I'm in the camp that it's because it is an air cooled car and there aren't many of them available. As far as performance is concerned, it was a great car in its day but the last ones were built ten years ago. So it would be unreasonble to expect it to compete with a 997 or even a 996 for that matter. But I expect that a car's power doesn't mean much to 993 buyers. It's probably the way the 993 looks and handles, and of course the feeling that the 993 is the last 911 to be true to the original 911 concept: light weight, air cooled, no frills sports car.
From what I see and read, 993 values were very, very strong up until 3 years or so ago, and if you sold at that time, yes, you probably did very well. However, those that bought at that price are now experiencing a "correction" (for lack of a better term) in depreciation. 993 values have dropping steadily and consistently, and are now pretty much in line with other Porsche models. Very low mileage, pristine 993 C2S and C4S are the exception, perhaps due to collectability, but if one piles the miles on one of these, the value will most certainly plummet into the normal ranges.
As for the 993 looks, handling, light weight, air cooled, no frills sports car, most who have owned both 993 and 996 will tell you the 996 handles better. The 996 is also lighter than the 993. And the 993 could be absolutely as luxuriously appointed as the 996.
06-15-2007, 09:16 AM
#67
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LVDell, just as long as the engine was in the back what the hell is that supposed to mean. We wont even talk about the 928 with you 911 guys although there have been a few converts. My take on the 911 is what an awsome car but to small for us larger dudes and not very comfortable on long drives. I also think that it is over priced, I cant believe the production numbers are so much more on the 996, I do see alot of 996's but I also see large numbers of 993's. The 928 was my drug growing up and I puchased one about 4 years ago. They are very different animals for sure, even when comparing the 911, but I do love them all and like was said earlier in this thread if I had enough money I would one one of each including the ones with the engine in the back.
Andy
Andy
06-15-2007, 09:27 AM
#68
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by Green Goblin
LVDell, just as long as the engine was in the back what the hell is that supposed to mean. We wont even talk about the 928 with you 911 guys although there have been a few converts. My take on the 911 is what an awsome car but to small for us larger dudes and not very comfortable on long drives. I also think that it is over priced, I cant believe the production numbers are so much more on the 996, I do see alot of 996's but I also see large numbers of 993's. The 928 was my drug growing up and I puchased one about 4 years ago. They are very different animals for sure, even when comparing the 911, but I do love them all and like was said earlier in this thread if I had enough money I would one one of each including the ones with the engine in the back.
Andy
Andy
Originally Posted by DJF1
I had a 996 blow up an engine right in front of me at TWS in 2003. It was like watching an F1 engine blow up. Lots of white smoke and pieces laying down on the track. Is that empirical enough? 
06-15-2007, 09:34 AM
#69
Originally Posted by BruceP
Up to the end of 993 production, I believe that Porsche built a total of somewhere around 400,000 911s. 993s represent about 20% of those. From memory, I'm pretty confident of my source. Your 996 number feels a bit high, but could be right. In any case, my point wasn't an absolute comparison, but rather just to say that on an annual production basis they aren't that far apart. The idea that 993s are rare and 996s were mass produced is erroneous. The 993 sold like hotcakes, for a Porsche at the time. And even at 190,000, units, the 996 was a limited production car. There are individual factories in this industry that produce numbers like that for car companies for single models each and every year. BMW over roughly the same number of years sold almost 250,000 Z3s alone. 190,000 units over six years is not, for today's car industry, substantial at all. The fact is that in real world car terms, Porsche 911s of any stripe are special (if you don't live in California).
In this thread, we're talking about 993 values vs 996 values . Production numbers of BMW's, or plant capacities for other manufacturers have nothing to do with this discussion.
I didn't claim 190k units over 6 years production is substantial "for today's car industry". I stated 190k 996 units is substantial vs 49k 993 units, and supply undoubtedly has an impact on the current values of these cars. The number of BMW Z3s sold, or Toyota Camrys, or any other car, do not.
06-15-2007, 10:05 AM
#71
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by Green Goblin
I know im just playin.
LOL
Andy
LOL
Andy
06-15-2007, 10:20 AM
#72
Hey Andy,
There were a bunch of (100 or so) Sharks in the NW N.Carolina mountains a couple of weeks ago. Annual get together.
http://www.928gt.com/t-sitm.aspx
I was in Blowing Rock with a bunch of no-good Boxster people (about 60 Boxsters, six or so 911's).
There were a bunch of (100 or so) Sharks in the NW N.Carolina mountains a couple of weeks ago. Annual get together.
http://www.928gt.com/t-sitm.aspx
I was in Blowing Rock with a bunch of no-good Boxster people (about 60 Boxsters, six or so 911's).
06-15-2007, 10:47 AM
#73
Burgled
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Every year there are fewer people that were brought up in the aircooled Pcar era meaning fewer people left to support the prices especially as the cars get older and very expensive to fix. The cheaper "throw away" 996 motor will become much more attractive.
06-15-2007, 10:57 AM
#74
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Some thoughts from a previous post comaring the 993 TT vs 996TT
Having owned the 964C2, the 993C4S, and now the 996TT, I can appreciate the significant differences, some say nuances, between these various generations of 911. Note, they are all indeed 911's.
The 993TT is to me a P51 pulling Xg's around the pylons at the Reno air races. All noise and thunder and eyeball popping performance. The plane is still a stick and rudder experience, and only the very skilled can extract its maximum performance. It's loud and hairy chested. It once was the pinnacle of the art. But now it's used for fun, not in anger.
The 996TT is the F16, much higher performance in many areas, but easier to fly at the performance level of the P51. Is it as fun as the P51, in many ways YES in some ways no. It's the one I want to use if I have to go to war, but if I'm looking for a hobby experience, I would select the P51.
Just a thought.......
The 993TT is to me a P51 pulling Xg's around the pylons at the Reno air races. All noise and thunder and eyeball popping performance. The plane is still a stick and rudder experience, and only the very skilled can extract its maximum performance. It's loud and hairy chested. It once was the pinnacle of the art. But now it's used for fun, not in anger.
The 996TT is the F16, much higher performance in many areas, but easier to fly at the performance level of the P51. Is it as fun as the P51, in many ways YES in some ways no. It's the one I want to use if I have to go to war, but if I'm looking for a hobby experience, I would select the P51.
Just a thought.......
06-15-2007, 11:01 AM
#75
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Originally Posted by LVDell
Now that my friend is what I call empirical. Just one data point, but nonetheless, a data point for the set. But why did it blow it? Oil starvation maybe? Your skill on the track has exceeded the capability of a M96