LVDell

JM993

Easy there. The bottom end of that old fashioned air-cooled car is more or less the basis of many of the higher end 996s and (I think 997s). It is a more robust piece.

Let me say that I'm a 993 owner who really likes 996s (especially the C4S and GT3). All this air-cooled vs. water-cooled snobbery we see from time to time is ridiculous. As an owner of a 993, I am delighted that the 996, 997, 986, and even the Cayenne have been successful. This success has enabled Porsche to remain viable and independent. Certaining a good thing.

The 993s are special cars. While the average run of the mill 996 is a better performing car, I'm not sure I'd call it simply better. I think you all would admit that the later cars are built to a price. In other words, we have lost some neat things - the way the door sounds when you close it, the gurgling of the oil, returning to the oil tank, etc. This is all great stuff. On the other hand, we've really progressed. The later cars are certainly great cars.

I think one of the main drivers of value has to due with evolution. The 993s are the last of the line. Some may argue the best of the bunch. The 996 started a new line. The 997 has improved on the 996 (at least in my opinion). Therefore, as 964s have lesser value than 993s (and I believe in the future the gap will widen), 996s will likely follow in the path of the 997. Given a choice, I'd much rather have a 997 than a comparable 996. To my eyes the 997 is better looking with a nicer interior. However, this certainly doesn't make the 996 a bad car - just not as valuable on the used car market. The good news (for me at least) is that my next daily driver will be a 996. They are a fantastic value.

Cheers

JM993

I should have said 996 will follow in the path of the 964 (not 997). Oops.

LVDell

Joe, you just confirmed the ignorance of the 993 camp. I don't care how you look at it, the 996 is a better car hands down. It is more reliable, cheaper to maintain, more advanced technology, etc, etc, etc.. Do I love the 993's? Of course. Is the body sexy with those curves? Hell yea. But better in terms of performance and reliability. Not even close. Trust me, while PAG wants to make a buck they don't go backwards in ANY category (except maybe styling).

Now go enjoy your door closing

Come back with what you want as my flame suit is on. But I will not be dragged into the delusions of the 993 camp. It really is amazing that EVERYBODY but 993 owners realize there are other cars in the Porsche lineup other than the 993. Not quite sure where it started or where it came from but it really is quite comical.

MarkD

There's a 993 camp? Cool, I love camping.
Gotta go pack.... let's see... I think I need my archaic thinking, ignorance, alleged arrogance, and... hmm... oh yeah, can't forget my snobbery. Don't leave home without it.
Geez. Some folks have a lot of ego invested in their cars.... almost funny. Almost.

Porsche makes many great cars... old and new, oil and water cooled. Why all of the chest thumping? Odd.

Oh, and some of my best friends drive 996s... lol (that is a "hey I'm not a racist" reference, humor intended)

Benjamin Choi

i like both

JM993

Dell,

I sincerely think you need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills.

Did you read my post? Perhaps you need to go back and read it more slowly. I think you'll find that I agree the 996 is a better car in many ways. But not in every way. No ignorance or delusions here. My point is that we did lose some things along the way. That's all. And, I did mention that my next car will likely be a 996, didn't I? Not sure how you can read this and then comment that 993 owners do not realize there are other cars in the Porsche lineup other than the 993. For the record, I think most Porsches (save the 924) are great.

Seems as you (as a 996 owner) are the one with a chip on your shoulder. In response to my post praising the 996 while offering a possible reason why they depreciate, you call 993 owners (including me) ignorant.

Let you in on a little secret - I'm not the one who looks bad here......

Cheers

LVDell

maybe I overaccentuated your statements however you never actually are willing (nor is the majority of the 993 camp) to admit that the 996 is an evolution of the P-Car lineage. If I offended you or read to "fast" my apologies. I have re-read your post and see that you made some fair assessments, some being the operative term, so I think it is time to let it rest. This is a political type discussion. Nobody is going to convince anybody on the other side of their stance.

LVDell

Come on, isn't camping fun? My wife loves it as well. Her version of camping is a hotel that doesn't have room service

Seriously, ALL the damn cars are great. Even those 924's

Duane993

The 993 was the last of the old...The 996 is the first of the new. Well made old stuff is always worth more than well made new stuff. I've had both (plus four other older 911). The 993 was my favorite. It had all the charm (Real VDO gauges, hang pedals that made you sit a bit sideways, HVAC controls only Albert Einstien could figure out, and a stereo system made for deaf people.) The plus side, easy and cheap to mod, suspension, ECU, tails, spoilers and other body mod galore. Also much easier to work on. The higher maintenance claims are only half right. You take it in twice as much but it only cost half as much for service. I first saw the 996 at the autoshow in LA. One look and a swore i'd never buy one. 7 years later i bought a 03 996TT. Why?? because they are such a screaming value on the used market. Have no shame in your game. Any Porsche is worth owning.

jasper

Air cooled cars are cool anachronistic devices. Air cooled cars are unlike any other on the road, they are a pure throwback to the early 20th century. Real old fashioned stuff.

In the case of the 993 owner - he has a right to be snobby because his old fashioned stanley steamer performs *almost* as well as the more modern cars we own, and performs *better* then 90% of the other cars on the road.

Back in my air cooled days I'd delight in running circles around more modern cars, and I'd do so with a smug "my car is an antique and it's still faster than yours, an oh have you heard how strange it sounds?" attitude.

993's are worth more than the 996 because they are more interesting cars. They always will be, and deservedly so. They contain technology you will never again see on a production car. I loved my air coole d911, and will probably buy one again some day (like when I'm retired) and I will relish the odd way it's put together.

993's most defintely do not perform better than the 996, nor is anyone here suggesting they do. Performance alone does not determine value. It's only one factor, and in this case a minor one.

Aerkuld6

I think that's part of it. They are very interesting cars to a geeky engineer like me and I think this combines with basic supply and demand. Being fortunate enoough to be an owner of an '87 Carrera and a 996 let me put my perspective on it.

The demand...
To the die hard enthusiast the Porsche 911 is something sacred. It was conceived as a relatively simple and light weight sports car. Some will argue that the original 911 ended in 1989 with the '84-'89 3.2 Carrera. Some will tell you that even those are not true to the original concept and they have too many gadgets to add weight. Others will say the 993 is the final 'pure' Porsche. Of course this is all subjective, but there are people who just want a 'classic' air cooled Porsche. I suppose this is actually helped by the guys who insist that a 911 must be air cooled. Call them snobby if you like, but they are probably pretty smart as their attitude is maintaining the mystique surrounding their cars. Basically the enthusiasts are the ones driving the demand, defining a 'classic' 911 to the guy who's looking for a 'classic' 911.

Of course there are those of us who see any Porsche 911 as a Porsche 911, and the 996 is a stunning 911. Of course there is still a demand for these too. Ask any guy in the street if he'd want a 911 and what's he going to say? But it is a different market, less controlled if you like, and the used 996 is having to compete on the used car lot with other sports and luxury cars.

The supply...
The 993 wasn't produced in anything like the numbers in which the 996 was produced. Even when new I would guess that the 993 was going to be a car that someone would buy and keep for years. The 996 on the other hand made a great high end lease or company car. These don't tend to be kept very long and sooner or later end up back on the market when they get traded in for a new Mercedes. So not only were there fewer 993's about in the first place, but of those that are out there relatively few end up on the market. Just search the internet and see how many 993's are for sale compared to 996's. I would virtually guarantee that the 993 to 996 ratio is at least 1 to 15, probably more.

So to address the original question. A 993 is worth more than a 996 because there is a niche demand for the relatively few 993's that are available, whereas there are plenty of used 996's that have to be priced to appeal to a far wider demographic of customer.



As a side note, the whole air cooled thing is an interesting concept. There is no doubt in my mind that the air cooled car's evolution is an engineering epic. But it got to the point where it was impractical to develop it further while meeting regulations and remaining competitive in the sports carmarket. To keep up with the competition Porsche needed to keep increasing power output and maintaining relaibilty without spending a fortune on exotic materials. The only realistic option that Porsche had was to switch to water cooled engines to increase efficiency. The air cooled guys can bash this as long as they want, but if Porsche hadn't changed I don't believe they would have survived as an automaker.

Change is inevitable, like it or not, and Porsche has continuously evolved the 911 line throughout its history. Without the change the 911 wouldn't have been around as long as it has and wouldn't be the icon it still is today. It doesn't matter to the general public how the engine is cooled the 911, 964, 993, 996 and 997 are all 911's. They are seen seen as something special and every new 911 always will be as long as Porsche are willing to continue to evolve the car.

Like it or not, the 911 probably wouldn't have survived much longer had Porsche not switched to water cooled engines. Which would you prefer?

BruceP

Aerkuld6, good analysis (though I always chuckle at the air cooled/water cooled distinction. All engines are air cooled). Porsche historians will be happy to remind us that the 356 clan was up in arms when the 911 arrived. Not a 'real Porsche', apparently.

Edgy01

Keep in mind that the liquid cooled issue is not an issue. All 911s have been liquid cooled from the beginning. So, the 993 is not that far removed from the 996. Porsche has always believed in improving the line. They also have the business savy to turn themselves into a viable manufacturer who can remain independent amongst all those who failed along the way. I appreciate the fact that Porsche has gotten smarter along the way. I can say that I am happy to have cut my teeth on Porsches before driving Porsches was considered cool. (I started in 1974). But I sure as hell like their latest offereings! They are a vast improvement over the 964 and 993.

The next time some yahoo gives you crap about his "air-cooled" Porsche just run up the window, turn up the a/c and move on down the highway. There are few of the older 911s that have adequate a/c to handle the Central Valley summers of California or Oklahoma on an August afternoon. Personally, I'd rather be comfortable! Let them maintain that they are 'air-cooled.' Guys,--they're all liquid-cooled. Always have been. If you do a thermal analysis of ANY 911 the majority of heat dissipation is due to OIL and not AIR pulling the heat off the engine.

Benjamin Choi

There's just a lot more 996s than 993s

Simple, done, good nite

Let's say it was the reverse... you guys really think peeps would spend more for the the older, slower, more dated 993 than the 996? Hell no.