why is the 993 worth so much more than a 996?
06-18-2007, 06:20 PM
#121
Ironman 140.6
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Originally Posted by hddude
We can debate production numbers, air cooled v. water cooled etc. However, this is mostly B.S. important only to the small percentage of owners who are Porsche "enthusiasts," like many of the people who post to these groups. The simple fact is most buyers who aren't enthusiasts would choose a 993 over a 996 for the same reason they'd pick Jessica Alba over Rosie O'Donnell, even though Rosie is probably more intelligent, more interesting, and much wealthier.
If the first 1999 996 had left the 993's body alone, we wouldn't be having this debate. The prices of any model year 996 would clearly exceed any model year of the 993. But the simple truth is most buyers love the 993's looks and aren't that crazy about the 996's looks. When 996's were brand new, they obviously had the advantage of newness to attract the substantial crowd who either lease a car or want a brand new car. That significant advantage is long gone and what we are left with are two aging used cars, one that most people think is beautiful versus one that appears to be an expensive Boxster with hung over eyes. I'm not sure why anyone even debates this topic when the answer is so obvious.
If the first 1999 996 had left the 993's body alone, we wouldn't be having this debate. The prices of any model year 996 would clearly exceed any model year of the 993. But the simple truth is most buyers love the 993's looks and aren't that crazy about the 996's looks. When 996's were brand new, they obviously had the advantage of newness to attract the substantial crowd who either lease a car or want a brand new car. That significant advantage is long gone and what we are left with are two aging used cars, one that most people think is beautiful versus one that appears to be an expensive Boxster with hung over eyes. I'm not sure why anyone even debates this topic when the answer is so obvious.
Sorry, but you just can't take out the dramatic difference in production numbers when you compare used car values. Add in the "last air-cooled" status that the 993 has and the answer is (as you put it) "so obvious".
06-18-2007, 06:23 PM
#123
Ironman 140.6
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Originally Posted by TD in DC
P.S. The Rosie/Jessica analogy is pretty stupid. Why you would call the 993 Rosie just because she is a little overweight is beyond me.
06-18-2007, 06:35 PM
#124
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Ray S
I couldn't disagree with you more. The 993 is a beautiful car, but put it next to a 996 (especially an aerokit car) and it just looks dated. Additionally, if so many people prefer the "look" of the 993 why did the 996 outsell it so dramatically (when they both were "new").
Sorry, but you just can't take out the dramatic difference in production numbers when you compare used car values. Add in the "last air-cooled" status that the 993 has and the answer is (as you put it) "so obvious".
Sorry, but you just can't take out the dramatic difference in production numbers when you compare used car values. Add in the "last air-cooled" status that the 993 has and the answer is (as you put it) "so obvious".
Or was it a sympathy buy for Porsche since the "people" didn't want them to go out of business before the 997 came along?Another car I don't like
06-18-2007, 08:20 PM
#126
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Wow. What a long thread. If you've seen my input here lately, I'm a long time 1973 911 owner, and I got a Boxster S a few years ago. I've been thinking of selling the Boxster and buying a Carrera cab, primarily for the back seats. I've generally actually like the Boxster S better because to me in normal city driving, it's more sporty/fun feeling - to me.
The reason I picked up on this thread is that today I was at a local well known Porsche mechanic. He went on and on about how bad the 996, 997 and Boxsters are. He said they are unreliable, their engines blow up, and their engines are Subaru engines. He was also pissed that Porsche will not supply parts for guys like him to rebuild 986, 996, and 997 engines. I wonder how much of the anger was because of that fact, or that like anyone else, there is a point when people get older and don't want to admit that they are not as good as the younger folks, and that therefore this concept applies to the cars they like.
After listening to him go on and on, I wasn't sure if I should immediately push my car off a cliff and hide in embarrassment for ever having owned one, or I should just walk tall and enjoy this great car that is not appreciated by all.
Heck, I'm one who never cared for the masses loved MGB or similarly loved Miata. The masses aren't always right. In fact, they tend to be lemmings, which is all the more reason to look elsewhere. Then again, as pointed out, with the number of 996s sold, where are the lemmings now?
The reason I picked up on this thread is that today I was at a local well known Porsche mechanic. He went on and on about how bad the 996, 997 and Boxsters are. He said they are unreliable, their engines blow up, and their engines are Subaru engines. He was also pissed that Porsche will not supply parts for guys like him to rebuild 986, 996, and 997 engines. I wonder how much of the anger was because of that fact, or that like anyone else, there is a point when people get older and don't want to admit that they are not as good as the younger folks, and that therefore this concept applies to the cars they like.
After listening to him go on and on, I wasn't sure if I should immediately push my car off a cliff and hide in embarrassment for ever having owned one, or I should just walk tall and enjoy this great car that is not appreciated by all.
Heck, I'm one who never cared for the masses loved MGB or similarly loved Miata. The masses aren't always right. In fact, they tend to be lemmings, which is all the more reason to look elsewhere. Then again, as pointed out, with the number of 996s sold, where are the lemmings now?
06-18-2007, 08:25 PM
#127
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by Jay Laifman
He said they are unreliable, their engines blow up, and their engines are Subaru engines. He was also pissed that Porsche will not supply parts for guys like him to rebuild 986, 996, and 997 engines.
06-18-2007, 09:13 PM
#128
Originally Posted by LVDell
What a bitter, sorry excuse for a mechanic. Find a new one. When he spews this babble ask to to give you some empirical evidence to support his anecdotal "evidence". He can't. He is just perpetuating the myth that keeps running throught the P-Car community. Let me guess, he talks about how unreliable they are b/c the majority of the cars he see's are 996's? Get him a calculator so he can figure out % of cars produced that are in his shop.
They used to have a term for these people a couple of hundred or so years ago: Luddites. I always want to ask them in exactly which year should progress have stopped. With steam? The domestication of horses? Fire? Walking upright? Cellular division? Sigh...
06-18-2007, 09:26 PM
#131
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Originally Posted by Steven C.
Look closely at my avitar. I don't just like superior cars...I have a better looking car, a 964
06-18-2007, 09:31 PM
#132
Banned
Originally Posted by LVDell
Come on now Ben. Have you driven both? The 2 cars share the same rear badge but couldn't be more different in many ways. Please give us a detailed juxtaposition to back up your subjective comment.
ps. I love them both but they are just different.
ps. I love them both but they are just different.
Now with that disclaimer of sorts...
I've driven both and the 996 GT3 is certainly a fast, raw car worthy of the badge, but at the end of the day, the 997 GT3 is not only faster/better in all performance categories, but it's also much better looking (i'm pretty vain). A more tractable car on the streets yet even better than its predecessor at the track. Well done, Stuttgart.
I know you're going to grab your pom pomos and put up some crowd points for your 996 GT3 and rightfully so, but in the light of the 997 GT3, there is no comparison. Porsche hit a grand salami with the 997 GT3. it's the complete package.
06-18-2007, 09:32 PM
#133
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Originally Posted by Jay Laifman
Wow. What a long thread. If you've seen my input here lately, I'm a long time 1973 911 owner, and I got a Boxster S a few years ago. I've been thinking of selling the Boxster and buying a Carrera cab, primarily for the back seats. I've generally actually like the Boxster S better because to me in normal city driving, it's more sporty/fun feeling - to me.
The reason I picked up on this thread is that today I was at a local well known Porsche mechanic. He went on and on about how bad the 996, 997 and Boxsters are. He said they are unreliable, their engines blow up, and their engines are Subaru engines. He was also pissed that Porsche will not supply parts for guys like him to rebuild 986, 996, and 997 engines. I wonder how much of the anger was because of that fact, or that like anyone else, there is a point when people get older and don't want to admit that they are not as good as the younger folks, and that therefore this concept applies to the cars they like.
After listening to him go on and on, I wasn't sure if I should immediately push my car off a cliff and hide in embarrassment for ever having owned one, or I should just walk tall and enjoy this great car that is not appreciated by all.
Heck, I'm one who never cared for the masses loved MGB or similarly loved Miata. The masses aren't always right. In fact, they tend to be lemmings, which is all the more reason to look elsewhere. Then again, as pointed out, with the number of 996s sold, where are the lemmings now?
The reason I picked up on this thread is that today I was at a local well known Porsche mechanic. He went on and on about how bad the 996, 997 and Boxsters are. He said they are unreliable, their engines blow up, and their engines are Subaru engines. He was also pissed that Porsche will not supply parts for guys like him to rebuild 986, 996, and 997 engines. I wonder how much of the anger was because of that fact, or that like anyone else, there is a point when people get older and don't want to admit that they are not as good as the younger folks, and that therefore this concept applies to the cars they like.
After listening to him go on and on, I wasn't sure if I should immediately push my car off a cliff and hide in embarrassment for ever having owned one, or I should just walk tall and enjoy this great car that is not appreciated by all.
Heck, I'm one who never cared for the masses loved MGB or similarly loved Miata. The masses aren't always right. In fact, they tend to be lemmings, which is all the more reason to look elsewhere. Then again, as pointed out, with the number of 996s sold, where are the lemmings now?
06-18-2007, 09:38 PM
#134
Banned
Looks-wise, put up a widebody 996 aerokitted car alongside a 993 widebody aerokitted car.
The 996 is going to look more modern and date the 993, but the proportions of the 993 are better as it just has those curves that the 996 and even the 997 just don't have because they are so big now compared to the 993 at least from a visual standpoint (not sure how the measurements come out).
Interior-wise, the 993 being much smaller feels much more intimate even if the materials and instrumentation and overall dash design are completely dated.
Dated carries a negative connotation in most cases, but in my post here, dated can also be timeless. The 993 is timeless. The 996... not so much, but all things being relative, it's a 911 so yes it'll look good for a long time.
With all that said, my $ went to the aerokitted 996 widebod because it is the better package overall.
The 996 is going to look more modern and date the 993, but the proportions of the 993 are better as it just has those curves that the 996 and even the 997 just don't have because they are so big now compared to the 993 at least from a visual standpoint (not sure how the measurements come out).
Interior-wise, the 993 being much smaller feels much more intimate even if the materials and instrumentation and overall dash design are completely dated.
Dated carries a negative connotation in most cases, but in my post here, dated can also be timeless. The 993 is timeless. The 996... not so much, but all things being relative, it's a 911 so yes it'll look good for a long time.
With all that said, my $ went to the aerokitted 996 widebod because it is the better package overall.
06-18-2007, 09:43 PM
#135
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Originally Posted by Benjamin Choi
Looks-wise, put up a widebody 996 aerokitted car alongside a 993 widebody aerokitted car.
The 996 is going to look more modern and date the 993, but the proportions of the 993 are better as it just has those curves that the 996 and even the 997 just don't have because they are so big now compared to the 993 at least from a visual standpoint (not sure how the measurements come out).
Interior-wise, the 993 being much smaller feels much more intimate even if the materials and instrumentation and overall dash design are completely dated.
Dated carries a negative connotation in most cases, but in my post here, dated can also be timeless. The 993 is timeless. The 996... not so much, but all things being relative, it's a 911 so yes it'll look good for a long time.
With all that said, my $ went to the aerokitted 996 widebod because it is the better package overall.
The 996 is going to look more modern and date the 993, but the proportions of the 993 are better as it just has those curves that the 996 and even the 997 just don't have because they are so big now compared to the 993 at least from a visual standpoint (not sure how the measurements come out).
Interior-wise, the 993 being much smaller feels much more intimate even if the materials and instrumentation and overall dash design are completely dated.
Dated carries a negative connotation in most cases, but in my post here, dated can also be timeless. The 993 is timeless. The 996... not so much, but all things being relative, it's a 911 so yes it'll look good for a long time.
With all that said, my $ went to the aerokitted 996 widebod because it is the better package overall.