GC996

Agreed. My bet would be that in 10 years, a 996 with a well taken care of M96 will be worth substantially more than a comparable quality 996 with an LS.

motoo344

Yeah but I think the M96 still has way more issues than an LS. If you blow an LS its not that expensive to fix. I am always torn with "what would I do if my engine goes?" Swaps are cool but generally not my thing personally but I feel like power wise its a way better bang for the buck.

GC996

Two questions to make a point.

1. What are the issues that the M96 and LS actually suffer from on and off the track?

2. Currently, what issues can't be solved for with both engines?

I'll add a third and fourth question.

3. What truly is the all in cost to swap in a used LS as well used M96?

4. What is the cost to rebuild an LS and rebuild an M96?

Type65

Those are all really good questions and it would be interesting to hear from people with more direct experience than me. However, I will offer this.

3: I wish I could remember who it was, but one of the automotive writers did an LS swap on a 996 and wrote an article about the true cost and the process and I want to say he said it ended up costing about $5k more than he expected, and so at the time it came out to be about the same price as an M96 rebuild. Obviously we have seen M96 rebuilds increase quite a bit recently, and I don't know that the same is true for LS swaps.

4: I unfortunately don't know a ton about LS motors, but I would imagine they are similar in this regard to SBCs, just slightly more expensive. You can build a SBC for $4k or $15k with similar power specs and the difference will be in the longevity from whether or not you used quality parts or the cheap Chinese parts that are readily available for nearly every part of the engine. Also, it is possible the crate motor providers are getting better, but I know that for a while the build quality/acceptable tolerance on some of the crate motors (in general no LS specific) was horrifically bad. I have seen a few that shipped out with the engine internals completely out of balance. Point being for a fair comparison, we need to compare a quality LS build to an M96 build, not simply what any LS can be had for.

Another interesting point to consider, is are there any problems created from the LS sitting backwards instead of forwards? I would think probably not, but the K24 swap thread made me think about this.

Also, specifically for track use, how do the stock gear ratios fit with the LS powerband?

motoo344

Its been a while since I've been in the LS game but generally 10-15k gets a solid long block between 400-600 hp. I don't think an M96 could touch that in terms of price to performance. Swap would obviously bring the cost of that LS up but still performance wise I don't think you get close with an M96.

philbert996

Yes
Do you think a Camaro SS owner would notice if a Porsche flat 6 engine replaced their V8?

pulpo

Regardless, that buyer overpaid for that car. But he knew he was doing so, and wanted to.

That car isn't worth 42k to anybody but the buyer. Obviously not to the seller, who built it.

IDK, I'd be willing to bet the seller is smiling ear to ear today.

I'd love to drive one and see one in person, or even build one myself someday. I'd never buy one, especially sight unseen.

peterp

I'm an originality guy and would never do the LS swap to my own car. That said, if a 996 already had an LS swap, and that 996 checked all my other "must have" boxes (full leather, 3-spoke, coupe, 6-speed, retaining stock look, etc), I'd consider it depending on one single factor: How does it drive? I don't need or even want 500hp, but if a modestly tuned LS retained the character of the 996, I'd give it some consideration. If it didn't drive as good as, or better than, a stock 996, I wouldn't buy it at any price.

I have the same question for the (pending) K24 swap. Having X00 hp is cool, but what I want to know is: How does it drive on a casual trip to the Piggley Wiggley to pick up some eggs?

.

GC996

Great points. Hoovie showed us that on the track with the LS sitting backwards, there are oil starvation and heating problems that need to be addressed or the engine will fail, which it did. I may be wrong, but Hoovie is a novice and doesnt carry much speed, so after a session or two the engine failed quickly. It will take the M96 substantially longer to fail with a stock sump and aos. We will find out about the K24 eventually with how Bayside addresses the issues.

pulpo

For sure, if I can drive it and meet the owner and spend some time with them that's a whole different story. On bring a trailer, I feel like buying a project car is signing up for trouble.

GC996

Yeah, no question, nobody needs over 450hp in the 996 on the track. Quite frankly, with an extra 60 hp at 385 with set of hoosiers, I would wave bye bye to most. 450 would only come into play on long straights which most 2 mile long tracks just don't have.

Dr_Strangelove

Good memory. It was indeed Tyler Hoover who wrote the article.

https://www.autotrader.com/car-video...ll-cost-269126

NYoutftr

This beauty was at Porsche Dealership today.
I think it has 20,000 miles on it.
$120k

damage98MO

Personally, I've given this conversion some thought, and decided is circumstance made a new engine necessary, I would go with another m96. If I wanted an LS or a V8 I would get a different car. I'm not criticizing anyone for the choice, and I bet it is very fun to drive. But, if I need a new engine, I still want porsche. I love the sound at revs. Especially with my aftermarket valved exhaust.
It would be interesting to have an electric 911 though 🤔

amargari

When I diagnosed my engine with bore scoring, I looked at the LS swap. You are looking at $6k for the basic conversion parts from CPE. This is so everything in the dash works with no check engine lights. Here are the parts.

CPE 996->LSX Engine Mounts $499.99
SM 996/997 -> LS Flywheel (NON-Turbo/GT) $749.00
SPEC 996/997 -> LS Flywheel (NON-Turbo/GT) $949.00
CPE 996->GM E38 Engine Harness $3,000.00
996/997 Electronic Power Steering Conversion $800.00

Total $5,997.99

You still need to figure out exhaust manifolds, catalytic converters, mufflers, and AC Lines. $1K to $2K

Lastly, you need the engine with the computer. At least $6k for something with an aluminum block.

All in, I was looking at the ballpark of $14K with a used engine.