Prices Keep Drifting Up
09-02-2021, 05:28 PM
#2206
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
That red one is pristine except for the parking brake scuff, great photos both inside and out. Won't get $55k but can ask whatever they want as a starting point.
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09-02-2021, 10:26 PM
#2207
Rennlist Member
Can someone explain to me what a Weissach 911 is
09-02-2021, 10:46 PM
#2208
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Good chance of picking it up cheapish.
09-02-2021, 10:52 PM
#2209
Rennlist Member
09-03-2021, 09:21 AM
#2211
Three Wheelin'
912
Don’t forget Porsche sold the 912 in the U.S. as late as 1976; whether they gave up on it or not.
Lighter, more nimble?? I’m grasping at straws here I’ve never even seen a 912 in person. Just grabbing adjectives from the 912 forum where they LOVE those little wet-sump cars.
Mostly it seems for the same very same reasons we LOVE the CHEAPER, LIGHTER, WET-SUMP 996 Carrera!
The parallel is striking between the two 911 engines, their two missions: then, and in 1999 (and to this day).
Inarguably similar
PS And we also have other lesser cost models buzzing around this dichotomy today (Boxster, Cayman). I don’t think anyone is comparing a 912 to a 944, or a Cayman, or a GT2. Let’s stick to the rear-engined 91x Types.
Lighter, more nimble?? I’m grasping at straws here I’ve never even seen a 912 in person. Just grabbing adjectives from the 912 forum where they LOVE those little wet-sump cars.
Mostly it seems for the same very same reasons we LOVE the CHEAPER, LIGHTER, WET-SUMP 996 Carrera!
The parallel is striking between the two 911 engines, their two missions: then, and in 1999 (and to this day).
Inarguably similar
PS And we also have other lesser cost models buzzing around this dichotomy today (Boxster, Cayman). I don’t think anyone is comparing a 912 to a 944, or a Cayman, or a GT2. Let’s stick to the rear-engined 91x Types.
Blue 68 engine. This one has been restored.
Green 1967 almost all original. And yes this is squirrel 🐿 car next to it.
09-03-2021, 09:30 AM
#2212
Rennlist Member
^
Seeimg a VW 4-banger in a 911 engine bay is exactly like seeing an oil pan beneath a 996 Carrera motor.
Exactly the same thing. Not sure how this isn’t glaringly obvious
Not “bad”. Just horses for courses. Wet sump for the road, dry sump for the track. Exactly like the original 911/912.
Seeimg a VW 4-banger in a 911 engine bay is exactly like seeing an oil pan beneath a 996 Carrera motor.
Exactly the same thing. Not sure how this isn’t glaringly obvious
Not “bad”. Just horses for courses. Wet sump for the road, dry sump for the track. Exactly like the original 911/912.
Last edited by bdronsick; 09-03-2021 at 09:31 AM.
09-03-2021, 10:11 AM
#2213
Rennlist Member
Last edited by Patrick3000; 09-03-2021 at 10:16 AM.
09-03-2021, 10:13 AM
#2214
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The last thing I'd want to do is be the person breaking in someone else's build with no recourse.
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09-03-2021, 10:16 AM
#2215
[QUOTE=bdronsick;17644567]Modern production methods were already in place at Porsche with Boxster years before 996, and would have carried through to the water cooled 911 regardless of which engine platform chosen.."
This is correct according to Pinky Lai. Toyota only assisted with logistics with regard to parts being available on the line at the right times, not the manufacturing method. It's a common misconception that Porsche looked to Toyota to learn how to build a car. Thanks to Toyota fewer strudel breaks.
This is correct according to Pinky Lai. Toyota only assisted with logistics with regard to parts being available on the line at the right times, not the manufacturing method. It's a common misconception that Porsche looked to Toyota to learn how to build a car. Thanks to Toyota fewer strudel breaks.
Last edited by Putt-Putt; 09-03-2021 at 10:19 AM.
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bdronsick (09-03-2021)
09-03-2021, 10:24 AM
#2216
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I find it funny that anyone would find taking advice from Toyota at that time a bad thing. Toyota was eating everyone's lunch back then.
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bdronsick (09-03-2021)
09-03-2021, 10:30 AM
#2217
Rennlist Member
09-03-2021, 10:32 AM
#2218
Rennlist Member
True. And the whole "Toyota" thing is irrelevant. Porsche had to modernize production and water cool their engines regardless of whether or not the 911 was wet or dry sump. None of that "saved" Porsche.
The decision to sell an "economized" wet-sump 911 motor for $75K a pop (almost a million of them to this day, and counting..) is what saved Porsche.
How Weiderking pulled that off I'll never know. Go back through the Rennlist pre-2K discussions; it took a decade before anyone figured out what he'd done. You see this was all bordering on fraud, right?? "Integrated Dry Sump" is an outright lie. Not even close to truth in advertising. Just a bold faced lie.
WHAT SAVED PORSCHE: The 1998 dry-sumped Mezger 993 cost $75K. The 1999 wet-sumped M96 cost $75K+ (my 1999 "stripper" window sticker read: "$74,998").
Weiderking charged the 911 price for the 912 (WTF??????). Then he released a whole brand new slew of 911's (called "GT's") and sold THEM for a whole lot over $100K. And now Porsche is charging over $500K for those same 911's (GT's). AND Porsche is STILL TO THIS DAY dumping wet-sump (bore-scored) brand-new 912's on (apparently unsuspecting) customers (even Turbo customers WTF????) for $75K(+++) a pop.
Don't say the 996 was an "improvement in other ways" because ALL the 911's were. The Turbos. The GT's. The Carreras. The Targas. They were ALL improved EXACTLY the same way. ONLY THE MOTOR was differentiated between price points. ONLY SELLING THE WET-SUMP MOTOR (conceptually) FROM THE 912 FOR $75K saved Porsche. THAT ONE DIFFERENTIATION was Weiderking's idea. All the rest was "modernization", "emissions", and "Japan". And that is now all ubiquitous throughout Porsche and throughout the entire world. That was inevitable. Pricing the 912 as a 911 was novel.
Who else sees this???
Guys, I love my 1999 912. It's light, economical, fun, and fast. But I'm never gonna pay $75K for it. Not when I can get a (used) 911 for that same money.
The decision to sell an "economized" wet-sump 911 motor for $75K a pop (almost a million of them to this day, and counting..) is what saved Porsche.
How Weiderking pulled that off I'll never know. Go back through the Rennlist pre-2K discussions; it took a decade before anyone figured out what he'd done. You see this was all bordering on fraud, right?? "Integrated Dry Sump" is an outright lie. Not even close to truth in advertising. Just a bold faced lie.
WHAT SAVED PORSCHE: The 1998 dry-sumped Mezger 993 cost $75K. The 1999 wet-sumped M96 cost $75K+ (my 1999 "stripper" window sticker read: "$74,998").
Weiderking charged the 911 price for the 912 (WTF??????). Then he released a whole brand new slew of 911's (called "GT's") and sold THEM for a whole lot over $100K. And now Porsche is charging over $500K for those same 911's (GT's). AND Porsche is STILL TO THIS DAY dumping wet-sump (bore-scored) brand-new 912's on (apparently unsuspecting) customers (even Turbo customers WTF????) for $75K(+++) a pop.
Don't say the 996 was an "improvement in other ways" because ALL the 911's were. The Turbos. The GT's. The Carreras. The Targas. They were ALL improved EXACTLY the same way. ONLY THE MOTOR was differentiated between price points. ONLY SELLING THE WET-SUMP MOTOR (conceptually) FROM THE 912 FOR $75K saved Porsche. THAT ONE DIFFERENTIATION was Weiderking's idea. All the rest was "modernization", "emissions", and "Japan". And that is now all ubiquitous throughout Porsche and throughout the entire world. That was inevitable. Pricing the 912 as a 911 was novel.
Who else sees this???
Guys, I love my 1999 912. It's light, economical, fun, and fast. But I'm never gonna pay $75K for it. Not when I can get a (used) 911 for that same money.
Last edited by bdronsick; 09-03-2021 at 10:53 AM.
09-03-2021, 10:40 AM
#2219
Rennlist Member
True. And the whole "Toyota" thing is irrelevant. Porsche was going to modernize production and water cool their engines regardless of whether or not the 911 was wet or dry sump. None of that "saved" Porsche.
The decision to sell an "economized" wet-sump 911 motor for $75K saved Porsche.
How Weiderking pulled that off I'll never know. Go back through the Rennlist pre-2K discussions; it took a decade before anyone figured out what he'd done. You see this was all bordering on fraud, right??
The 1998 dry-sumped Mezger 993 cost $75K. The 1999 wet-sumped M96 cost $75K.
Weiderking charged the 911 price for the 912 (WTF??????). Then he released a whole brand new slew of 911's (called "GT's") and sold THEM for a whole lot over $100K. And now Porsche is charging over $500K for those same 911's. AND Porsche is STILL TO THIS DAY dumping wet-sump (bore-scored) 912's on customers for $75K(+++) a pop.
Who else sees this???
Guys, I love my 1999 912. It's light, economical, fun, and fast. But I'm never gonna pay $75K for it. Not when I can get a (used) 911 (Turbo) for that same money.
The decision to sell an "economized" wet-sump 911 motor for $75K saved Porsche.
How Weiderking pulled that off I'll never know. Go back through the Rennlist pre-2K discussions; it took a decade before anyone figured out what he'd done. You see this was all bordering on fraud, right??
The 1998 dry-sumped Mezger 993 cost $75K. The 1999 wet-sumped M96 cost $75K.
Weiderking charged the 911 price for the 912 (WTF??????). Then he released a whole brand new slew of 911's (called "GT's") and sold THEM for a whole lot over $100K. And now Porsche is charging over $500K for those same 911's. AND Porsche is STILL TO THIS DAY dumping wet-sump (bore-scored) 912's on customers for $75K(+++) a pop.
Who else sees this???
Guys, I love my 1999 912. It's light, economical, fun, and fast. But I'm never gonna pay $75K for it. Not when I can get a (used) 911 (Turbo) for that same money.
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EVOMMM (09-03-2021)
09-03-2021, 10:42 AM
#2220
