Conversely, if you can buy a particular good part for a fraction of the cost of a different good part, it's wasted money to buy the more-expensive option. That's the crux of the whole debate about which IMS bearing to use. Nobody in their right mind is going to put in a crappy part when it takes a bunch of labor to install it, and if that crappy part failing can kill a $15K motor, but when the less-expensive part is claimed to be of comparable (or possibly better) quality than the significantly-more-expensive part, then it muddies the waters significantly.

If it was cut-and-dry that the cheaper part was crappy, then I'd pony up for the more-expensive part, no problem. But if the cheaper parts are crappy, why aren't we seeing reports of failures? Surely it's not because nobody's using them.

 

Yes, I have read the prequalification. https://imsretrofit.com/wp-content/u...lification.pdf

The engine runs well. There was no debris on the oil filter after a 1000-mile post-purchase drive home. I'm going to drain the oil and send in the oil for a Blackstone analysis. (I do this religiously on all of my vehicles.) I will pull the pan at the same time.

I haven't gotten a Durametric tool yet to check the camshaft deviation or related issues, but it's on my to-do list.

I haven't done a manometer test. I don't really want to spend $350 for a tool that I'll literally use once, though. https://lnengineering.com/products/t...ment-tool.html Is the manometer something that can be rented? If everything else checks out okay, is it the end of the world if I skip this particular test? I did notice that when I pulled the oil fill cap with the engine running, there was a ton of vacuum, and the engine immediately started running roughly and almost stalled. Replacing the oil fill cap restored the smooth running. Not sure if that reflects anything in regards to the manometer test.

I haven't done a bore scoping yet, but I have a borescope, so it's on my to-do list.

Do you care to offer anything beyond "you'll see"?

 

Stop guessing. The DLC process alone costs more than what you "guessed", and that's what those costs were back in 2012, when I used to deal with that stuff. Who knows what it is today.
That's not counting the bushing material, which is a special alloy, that took m ore than 13 revisions of the product to identify, before it went to market. At times this material can cost over 1,000.00 per foot, and you can only machine maybe 5 single row bushings per this foot of material, due to waste.

Now, those things said, the IMS Solution flange, and oil filter adaptor that is made to specifically provide the IMS Solution with JUST FILTERED oil, is not even in the equation.

Everyone is too worried about what someone is profiting off of something. Forget that, its none of your business, and it wastes effort. I call these people "vendor haters" for a good reason. Be more concerned with the proven product that has the proper development, and real instructions, and a proven procedure to back it up. Set aside the costs, and consider the value.

There's a reason why the only thing that I feel is the most expensive engine you can buy, but you don't find my actual purchasers bitching about how much they paid for it. Why? Because their direct experience has proven that the purchase is a good value, despite the costs~

The reality is you have to experience the complications, and issues first hand to believe them. Are there failures, yes.. People don't post them because they don't want to be ridiculed for buying the cheapest thing out there, and then it fails, when everyone told them not to do it. Do we hear about failures? Yes.

At least once every couple of weeks someone will install a product that's not sold by LN, and they will call to say that after the bearing was installed that the engine would not turn. They put the whole damn car back together, and didn't have the experience, or sense to spin the engine after the bearing was installed. They hit the starter and "clunk". Then they get to take it all back together, and do the job twice. Luckily they can do it faster, and easier the second time. Their experience is coming from the bad judgement that they executed. Do you ever hear of these? No, usually because shops are doing this, and they don't post here. They do post on private Porsche Technician forums and FB pages about these things, but you'll never see them.

I could tell you stories all day long, all of which come to me because the mfr of the cheap bearing can't/ or won't help them. Guess what? I just listen to their issue, (and it sounds like a broken record) and wait to tell them that I'm not helping them, and they can't pay me for help.

When an IMSB fails, the cost of the bearing isn't the concern, it's all the collateral damage that is created as secondary/ collateral damage.

If you get unlucky, and it happens to you, the percentage of failure can be whatever it is, but in your case you get to deal with a 100% failure experience.

That said, since hitting the open market in 2012 the IMS Solution has not experienced a single reported failure, and some have even lived after the processes were botched by installers. If anyone can find a failure report, I challenge them to provide this within this post. You can waste all day looking for it, and you still won't find it.

 

The process of dropping the motor (5-6 hours if you've done it before )just to get access to the bearing, the investment in tools and then the time involved to get it all back together. The bearing swap alone is not difficult as mentioned above, just do your homework and make sure you have all the proper tools before you start.
Not trying to discourage you.
Also, there are other preventative items that should be addressed while the motor is out, not addressing these will bite you later down the road. Been there done that!
Miss a step, make a mistake and your wallet gets lighter real fast.

Shop around, Manometers can be found under $200.00!

 

Not at all--anyone who's in business is in business to make money. I'd much rather that LNE (or any company selling a good product) make a profit and continue to stay in business. I just want to make sure I'm not being taken advantage of, a la the pharmaceutical industry. (An extreme example, of course, but we've all heard about medicines that cost $10 overseas but are thousands of dollars in the US because.. that's why the pharmaceutical companies can get away with charging.)

To be fair, if I do use one of your competitors' bearings, and it fails on me, I'll post about it. All of the I-told-you-so-ers can flame me, and I'd deserve it, but I'd want to help steer others away from a potentially problematic product. And then I'd be ponying up for a $15K engine rebuild. Which would suck, but, so be it.

If you wouldn't mind, please provide an explanation for the time-based maintenance interval for the LNE bearings--what in the bearings degrades over time, rather than mileage, necessitating replacement on a 4-year or 5-year schedule?

 

The subject has been beaten to death!
Can you afford to take a chance?

 

PS
I bought my 02 996 for $4K, thanks to the previous owner not taking the advice given then relying on a so called European Car Specialist to maintain/fix his car...They never did a prequalification. I bet if they did they may have caught the issue before it failed.

 

First of all, those people are not my competitors. They have not been since I removed myself from the IMSB world prior to 2012.
These people are actually contributors to my engine business, the things they do, and sell actually become an economic stimulus to drive more business to us, for complete engines.

Since you have the feelings that you stated above, and feel like you are going to be taken advantage of, I will refrain from saying anything that could be confused with trying to change your mind. I would not want you to buy something that I invented, and feel like you were ripped off, which is what will happen based on your reference of the pharmaceutical industry. It doesn't matter to me what you buy, nor is it my place to spend my time here telling you about the data that was used to create service intervals. I'd rather save the posting privileges that I have to pay for here, for things that will actually benefit my company. You have made your mind up, and likely would be displeased if you paid 1800 bucks for something that YOU think is making someone else rich (don't we just love the modern human's mind set?) and should cost 1/2 what it costs.

Based on my direct experience, if someone thinks this way, they must be left alone.

Google "corrosive wear", and you might learn something about what happens to components over time, which isn't limited to ball, or cylindrical bearings.

 

Read all this and then get back to us. Good luck! https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...his-first.html

 

 

Okay, so we've clearly gotten off on the wrong foot here. Prior to your input, yes, I had crossed LNE bearings off of my list. I get how that might have offended you, since it's clear that you've put a lot of effort and love into your products. Now that you and I have opened a dialogue, I'm trying to get as much information so I can to make a good decision.

Let's move past my comments on perceived value--I concede that, based on your input, the IMS solution is a good value based on its manufacturing cost and level of engineering.

I understand the concept of "corrosive wear", but Googling stuff is how I ended up strongly considering the alternative IMS bearing options. Please, tell me yourself what about the LNE IMS bearings has lead you to recommend a 4-year or 5-year replacement interval, respectively.

 

^^^This is absolutely correct^^^ BUT... there's a caveat - The engine needs to be "qualified" for IMSB replacement. If you don't "qualify" it (this is something you can do yourself, but you have to be totally honest - there's no "good enough"... it either qualifies or it doesn't) all bets are off, and even the 50,000 mile/6 year change interval goes out the window. Remember, as per JR's post above, this service interval was arrived at after years of installations and removals/inspections. Let's not try to re-invent the wheel here...

 

Last time I checked, I wasn't on trial here.

Your question is for LN Engineering. I'd recommend addressing it to them.

What you are thinking is that the service interval is it was created to stimulate sales, because that's how you think. You have proven that you are concerned about being taken advantage of by a vendor.

I have my R44, 4.4L M96 on the dyno right now, it has made over 420HP today with all stock ancillaries, including stock TB, plenum, cats, and full stock exhaust.
I'll focus the rest of my day on what I'm good at, and tell Charles from LN that he should weigh in here, to address this question as the mfr of the kits in question.

 

Two reasons:

1.) You should try to find out why it’s a fraction of the cost. It should be a red flag. It often is.

2.) Now that you know why the real bearing costs more, and the cheaper one could be a rip off of the real deal, you have a moral obligation to not screw the real developer.

I used to be like you - find the best price on X product. I don’t do that anymore because it turns out, I had to pay in the end. And when it comes to a 996, it can cost like 3X-10X to make a mistake.

 

I'm big into knowing the "why" for things. In the absence of an explanation, yes, I wonder if the time-based replacement interval doesn't exist to try to direct people towards the IMS solution. If someone's choices are to spend $3500 once, or to spend $2500 every five years, then it would be foolish to go with the latter option unless you're planning to part with the car in the near future. But if the choices are to spend $3500 once, or to spend $2500 every 15 years (75K-mile maintenance interval divided by 5K miles per year = 15 years), then it's a lot easier to think "I'll let Future Me worry about spending another $2500 and save the $1000 now". It's very likely that I'll have my 911 for at least 5 years. As for keeping it for 15 years, that's hard to say.

Wouldn't it be hilarious if I talked myself into the IMS solution and then you were like "screw that FleshRocket guy, I'm not selling one to him"? LOL

That would be great. Thanks!