thefleshrocket

I have a newly-acquired '02 911 and need to get the IMS bearing replaced so I can sleep at night, but I live in southern Illinois, which is a performance vehicle wasteland, so there aren't any shops I can trust to do the bearing replacement. St. Louis is the closest major metropolitan area (~100 miles), and Paducah, KY (60 miles) and Cape Girardeau, MO (50 miles) are also big enough that they may have shops that are adept at IMS-bearing-replacement. I've been Googling and calling, but so far none of them have given me a real warm and fuzzy feeling. Those of you who are in my vicinity, what shops do you have experience with that you can recommend? (Sure hope there's not some sticky about this that I missed.. I searched, I swear!)

dporto

Congrats on your new purchase! Are you a PCA member? I'd check with them (PCA) or other local members - they'll know who the best in the area are. You can also look on the FSI website for certified installer locations... Good Luck

thefleshrocket

I haven't joined the PCA yet, but I'll get on that.

I just got a call back from a shop called Bespoke Motors in STL. The shop sounds knowledgeable and experienced with IMS bearing replacements (he knew about the various IMSB options and about the recommended other tasks--RMS and clutch), and the price was about where I expected it to be, so this is a strong contender.

LexVan

Drive up to Mommence Illinois and have Charles at L&N Engineering do the work.

thefleshrocket

You know, I'd thought about that, but I'm... not going with an LN Engineering bearing, and I think it would be kind of awkward if I were to show up there and ask them to install a competitor's bearing in my 911. (Hold on, I need to put on my flame suit.) The good-for-the-lifetime-of-the-motor IMS solution would be a no-brainer, but IMO $1849 is just way more than I'm willing to spend on the parts alone. The other LN options are age-based recommended replacement intervals, and I don't think it's financially wise to go for an option that will require me to spend ~$2000 ($800ish parts, $1200ish labor) every 4 or 5 years. So I am looking at some of the alternative roller bearing options, either MB Motorsports or EPS / Vertex. Probably MB Motorsports since it doesn't include the additional oiling, which both MB and EPS claim isn't needed. I haven't seen anyone else on Rennlist claim to have used either of those vendors' bearings, so maybe I'll be the canary in the mineshaft.

808Bill

The IMS Solution is the only proven "one and done" replacement.
There's also a prequalification that needs to be done before any retro fit.

LexVan

Good luck to you. You're going to need it. FYI- Martin of MB Motorsports was banned from Rennlist. More than once, too. There's a reason for that. He's also received nice Cease And Desist letters from Stuttgart. Proceed with extreme caution.

mrdeezy

Ims solution or bust.

If your car is kinda shoddy, say sub 20k I would roll the dice and do nothing.It's been 20 years, mathematically it's the smart move to leave it alone. I would NOT spend a bunch of money for an "Acme" bearing. It is not much more to get the proven one. I would call Jake Raby and ask him where a certified ims solution installer near you is. My guess is that probably only about half the M96 cars out there would even pass pre- qualification anyways.

dporto

Perhaps his screen name is well deserved...

Prelude Guy

You bought the wrong car. If you won't be a to sleep because of the IMSB, just wait until you see how many "As likely to fail" reasons for engine failure these cars have.

Porschetech3

L&N also sells/installs a roller bearing option, the RND roller bearing. It's very comparable to the ones you are considering in terms of design, and probably price. What price are you considering and have you compared it to the RND roller that L&N sells?

thefleshrocket

This is the first I'm hearing about any of this. I'd love to see links / posts / proof.

thefleshrocket

I'm eyeing either the:
MB Motorsports roller bearing - $300, http://mbmotorsportsrepair.com/parts-for-sale.html or the
EPS roller bearing - $579 https://www.europeanpartssolution.co...ng-upgrade-kit

As far as I can tell, the MBM and EPS bearings are identical, except that the EPS bearing comes with an oil pump drive shaft that has a slot in it to force oil through the IMS, basically forcing oil to the IMS bearing. EPS admits that forcing oil to the IMSB is not a necessity, but is provided because "the internet" says it should. As the LNE bearing also omits forcing oil to the IMSB, I'm inclined believe that forced oiling the IMSB is not necessary. So at that point, if the MBM bearing is comparable to the EPS bearing but is half the price, that seems like the way to go.

There's also:
LN Engineering roller bearing - $749 - https://lnengineering.com/products/i...ofit-kits.html

The main thing that has turned me off about LN Engineering's replacement bearings is that they've got a time-based replacement interval. The roller bearing is listed as 4 years and the ball bearing is listed as 5 years. I get that the original Porsche bearing should have had a time-base maintenance interval because eventually the seal on the bearing is going to fail and let out the grease inside, resulting in insufficient lubrication, hence the primary cause of the bearing failures. But the aftermarket roller bearings (MB, EPS, and LN) are all exposed to engine oil, and there are no apparent rubber / plastic parts to get brittle. EPS specifically markets its roller bearing as being "lifetime", so why does LN list a 4-year service interval for its roller bearing?

If it was just a mileage-based interval for LN's bearing, I could almost stomach that. I'm going to put at most 5K miles per year on my 911, so it would take me at least 10 years to rack up the 50K miles that LN says its roller bearing should be replaced at. But if that same bearing becomes a ticking time bomb at the 4-year mark, when I've maybe only put 20K miles on my 911, that's just not acceptable.

So, assuming that everyone's telling the truth and representing their products accurately, it would be foolish to go with an option that is a) more expensive up front and b) will need to be replaced, at significant parts and labor cost, in 4-5 years.

Honestly, this whole process is going to make my head explode. I wish that the LNE IMS solution was ~$1K.. I could justify spending that amount for the peace of mind. But $1849 feels to me like it's a $1K kit with an $849 "peace of mind" surcharge. The kit includes the bearing ($849ish based on what LNE charges for its ball or roller bearings), the spin-on oil filter adapter ($150ish), a braided steel line ($50ish) and an oil filter ($12). So.. ~$1062. Not $1849. But obviously LNE can charge whatever it wants, and people either pay it or they don't. Sigh.

I feel like if LNE's pricing was more like:
--40K-mile roller bearing - $500
--50K-mile ball bearing - $700
--IMS solution - $1000
Then the competitors / knockoffs would be forced out of the market (because who wouldn't pick the well-known name-brand when it doesn't cost a whole lot more than the other options), and a lot more IMS solutions would be sold.

thefleshrocket

Oh hush. There are plenty of things that can cause any engine from any manufacturer to fail. The IMSB is the only "OMG STAKE IN THE HEART" failure item on the M96, where, if it's not addressed, it can kill the whole motor at any time with no warning. Okay, I'm exaggerating a bit there, but there aren't hundreds upon hundreds of threads about any of the other things that can kill an M96, so as long as I have the IMSB replaced / upgraded, I'll feel like I've done my due diligence and can just enjoy the car without worrying. Much.

Porschetech3

Geeezus !! You are wound up !! I wish I hadn't commented. It's you car, you should do as you want. I think you should buy whatever bearing you want and install it yourself. That should unwind you a little bit..