dporto

Dude... read between the lines. They all have a service interval - it's just that LNE is the only one being honest with you. The others couldn't care less whether their bearing gives up the ghost a couple years down the road... Lifetime? Really? Do you think you'll ever collect on that promise? Do your diligence and be honest with yourself - there are no free rides. RE: Pricing - get over it. You already got a $90k car for $15k- $20k (if you paid less than that, you really didn't, you just don't know it yet...) Geeeeeezzzzzz this place never ceases to amaze me

thefleshrocket

Honestly, after sleeping on it, I think I will do it myself. After reading this thread about a guy DIYing the IMS bearing on a Boxster (he used the EPS bearing, back in 2016), I feel a lot better about it being within my skill level to perform myself. https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/fo.../120457/page1/

On the estimate I got, there is about $2K of labor and parts markup, and if this is something I can get done taking a couple days off work (which costs me nothing), then I might as well.

NuttyProfessor

You're not going to receive any pats-on-the-back for selecting MB Motorsports and EPS here on the 996 RL forum. Both companies have questionable business practices that I would avoid like the plaque. EPS and Vertex are basically the same company and many people have reported problems with dealing with them over the years. Martin from MB Motorsports is definitely banned here on RL and some people have reported engine failure under warranty that he didn't honor. I'm going from memory here. If you need more "proof", then do a simple google search and you'll see the layers peel back quickly like an old onion.

If you don't have removal tools, lifts, or experience with dropping a transmission on these cars, removing the clutch, flywheel, etc, then your best bet is to hire someone. There are two LN certified installer in the St. Louis, Missouri area.

http://www.ettuning.com
ET Tuning | Jon Rhodes | 6 Williams Drive, Union, MO 63084
ph: 636-583-9191 | email: info@ettuning.com

http://www.reidvann.com
Reid Vann | 9331 Manchester Rd., St. Louis, MO 63119
ph: 314-968-4100 | email: reid@reidvann.com

Mike Murphy

You are probably better off doing nothing than trying to do it yourself or save money by going with a sub-par brand. Not saying the LN is the only way to go, but it’s proven and a no-brainer, IMO. Improperly installed IMSBs by mechanics have caused engines to fail down the road, and these are real mechanics too, not DIY’ers, maybe not true Porsche specialists. Even if they are Porsche specialists, are they M96 specialists? Makes a difference. I wouldn’t want any air-cooled engine expert digging around inside my M96...

That said, did you call Isringhausen Imports in Springfield yet? Do they do IMSB installs?

The money you spend on an LN solution could be recaptured if sold down the road. Not all of it, but some of it.

NuttyProfessor

You're being a gullible fool.

thefleshrocket

EPS claims its bearing is good for the lifetime OF THE ENGINE--obviously it's not going to last forever. If the typical M96 needs a rebuild after 150-200K miles, I'm completely fine with expecting to have to replace the IMS bearing during the rebuild process. What I'm not fine with is having to spend $2K+ to replace an IMS bearing every 4 or 5 years, regardless of mileage. That's just asinine.

I am all about value. A $95K car (which, coincidentally, is what MSRP was on mine according to the VIN) for $21K with low miles in great condition IS a really good value. What's not a good value is paying $2K for something that should cost $1K. Or paying $20 for something that should cost $10. If there's not a good reason to justify what feels like an artificially inflated expense, then I'd feel like I'm being taken advantage of if I paid it. Just because I got a good value on the car doesn't mean that I'm going to happily throw money away on other stuff.

Flat6 Innovations

Nothing I am about to post here pertains to, or is directed at the original poster. He is already pre- determined, and has made his mind up about what he will use, or will not use. He has made his mind up, and no one could/ should try to change his mind. Personally I could give a damn what he uses, because I haven't been party to an IMS Bearing sale since 2011. I could also care less if he likes, loves, or hates what I am about to post, as these are facts, and are not being posted to further my position here, or anywhere else.

My post should be considered by everyone else reading this post.
What @dporto posted above is absolutely, 100% spot on.

No one else has taken the time to truly develop these components, and pull things apart years later to judge them. In most cases someone whips up a copycat product, makes it fit into the IMS housing bore, and makes sure the engine will at least start, then they throw it on the market. These people are imitators, they are not originators, and furthermore, they are not developers. They will never be referred to as "pioneers", because they are not, and cannot be. They see a way to make a quick buck, with little investment in anything other than marketing, and they take advantage of that.

These people are not posting any sort of time in service, or mileage points because they want their product to appear to be superior to the truly developed product that does have a service interval posted, and has had these intervals posted since 2008. At that time the other companies were probably not even in business, and if they were they had one of their other identities being used, or they were a customer of LN. Lots of these people were LN customers, and they used the LN retrofit kits to give them their ideas to imitate. To my knowledge all of these other people use my procedure to retrofit the bearings they offer, and they use my tools to do the job. Keep that in mind. It's easy to whip up some funky bearing that may come from Romania, and slap it into the engine, as long as someone else has developed the procedure and the tools for you to do that. That's what I did, and imitators **** me off.

The service intervals are not "vaporware". These are calculated from bearing manufacturers, and supported by data pulled first hand from engines that had seen all the different bearings fitted, over both time, and mileage. All deep groove ball bearings, and cylindrical roller bearings have a service life. Some are posted deep in bearing specification manuals as a suggestion, and others are derived from direct, first hand experience, and empirical data. If no one else is giving this data out, they either do not have it (imagine that) or they want to make their product appear to be a permanent fix, by not posting service intervals. The latter is usually what their marketing people tell them to do, but those people aren't too swift, because they copied photos from my website, and used them in the other companies ads, as their own! Again, there's nothing I hate more than an imitator.

Concerning the IMS Solution cost:
Yeah, I am sure that you'd like to buy the IMS Solution for 1,000 bucks. I'd like to buy 50 BMG ammo for 50 cents a round, too.. But I have to pay 3 bucks a round, if I am lucky. Its the price I pay to be able to launch 660 grains of lead/ steel down range. It doesn't matter what you "like" as the price of admission is what it is for me, and for you alike. If I wanted to shoot cheaper, I'd shoot a .22 rifle, not a 50BMG. If you want to drive something cheaper, go buy a freaking Toyota, not a Porsche. The fact is these cars got too cheap, too quickly, and that wasn't because of engine problems, it was due to the economy that killed every European vehicle's value in the 2007-2010 period, and they never recovered. Often times people can afford to buy a Porsche, but they cannot afford to own it. Just like people can afford not buy a rifle that fires a 50 BMG round, but they can't afford to shoot it.

The IMS Solution is not some cheaply made, under- developed IMS "fix". The IMS Solution costs well more than the 1K that someone wishes to pay for it, to manufacture, and that doesn't count the 10+ years of life that was expended to invent, develop, and Patent the art. I originally invented these, and made the kits ONLY for MY engines. I kept this to myself as a secret weapon for a long time, only using them in my engines, and never advertising them. Honestly, all the imitators that came along around 2012 (some of which copied people's other inventions from forums!) is what lead me to make the decision to let go of the product, so LN could spank all those other people's asses, with something they could never trump, no matter how hard they tried. That product is the IMS Solution. That's how each of you can now purchase the IMS Solution, before that, you had to buy my engine to even know it existed.

Now, many of you will not like what I've said here, and you may feel that its a free marketplace, and that competition is good. I would dare say that if you have this mindset, you've never truly developed something, and dealt directly with imitators who choose to utilize your development to further themselves through questionable business ethics, and morals. I have no problem with competition, as long as the table is kept clean, and the other guy is just as inventive as I am. What I do have a problem with is the imitator that has 3 different business names in one year, or the person who throws things onto the market with a total lack of development behind it. That said, I know all of these companies, and I know their history, right down to when some of them sent technicians to attend my classes, and those people admitted that they had never had an M9X engine apart at their shop at that time.

I remember a time when these IMS topics were much different. There were no copycats, and only one originator. In those days people were busy bitching at us, saying that it was "impossible to extract an IMS Bearing" from the engine, because Porsche said so. In those days we were the targets of people saying that we were making up the procedure to change the bearing, and etc. Go back to 2007- 2008 here on these forums and you'll see this. At that time the other guys were busy doubting that this could be done, too. See how much a decade or so can change things, when copycats jump in? Today no one challenges the fact that the IMSB can be retrofitted, and the very people that said it could not be done have my tools in their tool box.

In closing, I will say that everything I have said in this post is of a general nature. I am not calling out, or referring to any particular person, company, or product. Some time if you ever get to see me in person, we can have a colorful conversation on this topic, which may make your ears bleed. I'm fed up with imitators, fakesters, liars, and marketing people.

mrdeezy

It really sounds so childish. I think a rolex should cost 500 bucks,its so stupid what a rip! An phone should cost 80 bucks! this is ridiculous! Saying an IMS solution should only cost what you are willing to pay is such a ignorant take.

Like, what do you do for a living? I think thats worth minimum wage. Such a poor take flesh rocket.

Honestly, I think Mr Raby has sort of a complex relationship with 996's. I think there is a business of fear going on that hurts the value of these cars. Mr Raby pays a a lot of money to sponsor these forums and provides great information. Some of the best in the world for this car. Also can come off a bit rough and arrogant. I get that.I know people who have invented stuff and weeks later there is a Chinese company selling it for 40% off somewhere. I would be pissed too. I also have an LN thermostat, spin on filter, drain plug, and Ims. (should have got the solution) I believe in these products, their quality and development 1000 percent. I personally don't 100% believe in the service interval and would only do it on a car with very long oil service intervals or if I was doing the clutch. It's my money and if my car blows up its on me. I still have not heard of a an Ims blowing up because it surpassed its service interval. It's up to you mr flesh rocket to make your own decisions. You sound like an anxious, penny pinching mess. You probably should have bought an E36 m3 or s2000 or some similar sports car thats relatively bullet proof. This 996's require a certain owner. Not just someone who wants to drive a Porsche because it looks cool.

808Bill

Like the old saying goes, "You Can Lead a Horse to Water, but You Can't Make Him Drink"...Good luck OP. Once you start this process, I guarantee you'll wish someone else (qualified) was doing it!

Yes, there is proof of retro fits failing shortly after it's service life. Hopefully that member see's this and chimes in...It cost him a lot of money!

thefleshrocket

Thank you for the constructive criticism!

NuttyProfessor

Buying a Porsche at a good deal then installing low quality parts that could lead to engine failure is being penny wise and pound foolish. Remember, a fool and a sucker are born every minute.

thefleshrocket

Everything I've read or watched about replacing the IMS bearing makes it look like it's not rocket science--like someone with a modicum of mechanical aptitude, the appropriate tools, and attention to detail should be able to complete the task successfully. What makes you think differently?

808Bill

You'll see...
Have you educated yourself on the prequalification procedure before any retro-fit should be done?

thefleshrocket

I appreciate getting input directly from the horse's mouth. I've quoted the two parts of your post that I feel are most-applicable to me. I realize that you don't owe me any sort of explanation, so I won't be offended if you don't answer my questions. I also hope that you won't be offended that I'm asking them.

First is regarding the service life. I completely understand the mileage-based maintenance interval. What I don't get is the time-based maintenance interval. What in the roller-based bearing makes it need to be replaced after 4 years? What in the ball-based bearing makes it need to be replaced after 5 years? (This time-based maintenance interval is my biggest mental hurdle towards me selecting an LNE bearing.)

Second is regarding the cost of the IMS solution itself. Your development and patent time notwithstanding, I was guessing that the IMS solution costs somewhere between $300-$500 to manufacture. It was based on that assumption that I posited that I felt like ~$1000 would be a fair price for it. 100-200% markup is a pretty good profit margin, right? Now based on your statement that it costs more than $1000 to manufacture, I can swallow the $1849 price tag a bit easier. Out of curiosity, what makes the IMS solution cost that much more than the roller-based or ball-based bearings that LNE sells? The spin-on filter adapter and oil line obviously don't add that much to the manufacturing cost of the kit ($100?), so I take it that the plain bearing must be a lot pricier?

Again, I know you don't owe me answers to these questions, but I appreciate any input regardless.

Flat6 Innovations

Nope, you can lead a human to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

This is only because the procedure was developed, and became mainstream.
Trust that in the early days of this, when I made the first puller to extra the bearings, and determined the bearing could be pulled at TDC was nothing less than a black art.
When this was created, no resource material existed. No directives, and no instructions. Everyone said that it could not be done, and service writers at dealerships maintained that this could not be done, until at least 2012.

No, its not difficult to do, with resource materials, written instructions, and videos that we have been sharing since 2008. You just have to follow the procedure, and don't retrofit an engine that is disqualified due to underlying failures.