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This should be the next to last post on the furnace. The last will be with the tank hooked up and heat pouring out past the louvers.
My son came out and hooked up the 120v. He installed a switch above the thermostat and wired in an overhead outlet to the same circuit. Don't laugh at the cover plate color. I'll never find a real need for that paint so I used some of it on the wall plates and the circuit breaker. Color coding makes sense, rather than just relying on the label in the box.
Tomorrow a tank will be delivered and hooked to the fuel pipe.
Last edited by Scott at Team Harco; 02-26-2020 at 01:25 PM.
Tomorrow a tank will be delivered and hooked to the fuel pipe.
Are you buying the tank outright or leasing it from the propane company? I ask, because of the whopping two installs I worked on (and more than 20 years ago at that), the propane company had conditions that had to be met before they would install the tank. Because of liability issues, one wanted to see a signed inspection card from the building department before they would hook it up and the other one said the concrete pad for the tank didn't meet their spec. I'm sure you'll be fine but I just thought I'd throw it out there.
Are you buying the tank outright or leasing it from the propane company? I ask, because of the whopping two installs I worked on (and more than 20 years ago at that), the propane company had conditions that had to be met before they would install the tank. Because of liability issues, one wanted to see a signed inspection card from the building department before they would hook it up and the other one said the concrete pad for the tank didn't meet their spec. I'm sure you'll be fine but I just thought I'd throw it out there.
Lease. We pay a fee to have it delivered and then to have it filled. Hopefully will only need to have it re-filled every two years of so. We'll have to see.
Originally Posted by cds72911
I'm guessing he doesn't have the same codes and inspections you do. That wiring doesn't look like it meets the NEC either.
No - there is no conduit, for one. Everything is protected by breakers and properly wired. Most everything is high enough as to be out of reach for nearly all eventualities. If I had to pay someone to do this - it would be just like my Porsches - it wouldn't happen. I did pay to have the pole barn built and the concrete poured. Beyond that, it was all done by me (and a couple of family members).
Tank is due between noon and four. Need to be home to supervise...
I'm guessing he doesn't have the same codes and inspections you do. That wiring doesn't look like it meets the NEC either.
Looks fine to me, 14g and a 15amp breaker. Wires r stapled and cover plates r on. The only issue is that current code would require a gfi breaker or outlet. Soon it will have to be an arc/gfi. Personally its stupid being that its on the ceiling and u r in no danger of being wet to ground. The arc faults in garages r stupid too, but thats a whole nother conversation.
I wish it were that simple. I have to lay out a rally and make trophies. We're using a new phone app to define checkpoint locations - so there is a big learning curve to overcome. The big benefits are no control workers are needed and the number of controls is greatly increased. My son and I were out trying to define the first section of the rally today, when the propane guys arrived. The wife called and let me know they were here.
Was able to get home within about half an hour. They were still here - and they could not get the burners to stay lit. I messed with things and still have not been successful. Did a manifold pressure check with my manometer and can't get more than 8" of water column. Should be 10". Stay tuned...
Last edited by Scott at Team Harco; 12-27-2019 at 07:26 PM.
Alas there is no joy in Muddville, this night. I was in contact with the technical service of the furnace maker. They were very helpful. They had good advice and I was able to follow-up on their recommendations. One was to clean the flame sensor. That didn't correct the problem. Then it was to pull out the jet (orifice) that isn't firing and make sure there is no debris obstructing fuel flow. Did that too. Still not getting the fifth of five burners to fire.
Will call them directly tomorrow and see if it can be resolved on the phone. The tech, on the chat service, hinted that a new propane valve might need to be sent out. We'll know more tomorrow. Maybe there's something else being overlooked. I have my doubts about that. The propane delivery guy didn't see anything questionable in my install. And I have to admit to having a high level of confidence in it, as well.
So for a little fun - this is where I left off on the trophies a couple of days ago. Need to explain what's happening: I start with a 6"x6" tile and paint a dirt road surrounded by snow. Then I glue a truly awesome Hot Wheels car in a spot that evokes the most life, drama and motion. Well, you still need a lot of imagination....
Those are awesome Scott! I love unique and hand made trophies. These are the keepers 20+ yrs down the road. All the plastic ones get recycled, at least in my house.
LOVE the trophies! I've made trophies for events but they suck compared to yours.
Originally Posted by Scott at Team Harco
Did a manifold pressure check with my manometer and can't get more than 8" of water column. Should be 10".
Did you double check how you installed the LPG conversion kit? It sounds like it still thinks it's using natural gas. Is the burner that is not lighting the one farthest from the fuel source?
LOVE the trophies! I've made trophies for events but they suck compared to yours.
Did you double check how you installed the LPG conversion kit? It sounds like it still thinks it's using natural gas. Is the burner that is not lighting the one farthest from the fuel source?
I did mess with the adjustment screw. I fear it may now be stuck bottomed out. It doesn't seem to matter. Backing it out and screwing it in, made no difference. I did get a good 11" of WC in a later test, but still not getting the last burner to light. Yes - furthest from the fuel source. I'll be calling their tech hotline soon. We'll see what they have to say.
I wonder if its a volume issue? What size pipe did u use. I hope it was 3/4". Maybe u can crank up the regulator on the tank.
It might still be an issue. However, I consulted the 2018 International Fuel Gas Code - Table 402.4(28) for schedule 40 metallic pipe.
My run is slightly less than 50'. My heater is rated at 80k BTU. For undiluted propane with 11.0 in WC initial pressure and a pressure drop of 0.5 in WC, the 1/2" pipe I used should be good for up to 122k BTU. That being said, I am getting a pressure drop down to about 8 in WC when the unit is operating (this on the input side). At initial light-off, pressure is at 11.6 in WC (output side) and gradually drops over time. Will need to study this more and understand why this is happening. In the meantime - we have ignition.
Worked with a technician on the phone. I described the issue and he suggested that there was an obstruction to the last jet. I went through this yesterday and that was not the issue. He had me light the last jet with a butane lighter. It fired up! I did notice that the #4 jet was shooting off a lick of orange flame that was ever so slightly bypassing its passageway. On closer inspection, that jet was not installed square to the manifold. I removed it and realigned it and that was all it took to allow it to light-off #5. I still am concerned about the pressure drop. They will be sending me another valve that has been converted for propane. I'm not sure that will correct the pressure concern, but it should address the worry I have regarding the adjustment screw that will no longer come out.
Fan on...
Flame on... I would expect less orange and more blue. I think that is due to the pressure being on the low side. Still need a little more work to get this fully resolved.
Maybe by page 10, I'll have real engine related content.
After getting the furnace to stay lit, I went to my mapping program and defined a solid rally course. Should be around 175 miles of the best roads SE lower Michigan has to offer. And by, best, I mean unpaved. Plan to get through a lot, if not all, of it tomorrow. Our practice run, with the new checkpoint app, was valuable. I'll be logging the route and my son will have responsibility for the checkpoints. Expecting him to log the route is too much work. This Phone/GPS-centric checkpoint app is a very interesting and revolutionary way to create road rallies. Hopefully we'll pull it off with few glitches.
I also got closer to completing the trophies.
I give away a special award each year. I call it the "Son of Sno* Award". It will go, this year, to a guy that has contributed to not only me, and my rally, but to the region, as a whole. I think he may get a kick out of it.
This is what the diorama is based on. His car, from the 1976 Marquette 1000.
Unfortunately, I haven't come across a convertible w/hardtop to more closely capture the original. I do think the collapsed rear window will help with the authenticity... oops.
12-26-2019, 08:53 PM
