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2019 Engine Rebuild Comparison RND/FSI/EBS/Vertex

 
Old 05-15-2019, 12:53 PM
  #136  
mcgousha
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Hey, that's my car

Happy to start a thread if anyone's interested to feedback to the forum how this goes and what I end up having to go through to get this to work. And of course if it was worth it in the end.
Originally Posted by jim010 View Post

Also, if we are doing powertrain alternatives, why not include electric? There have been a few conversions for a 996 so far, no?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FpezUUpSsw
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:41 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by mcgousha View Post
Hey, that's my car

Happy to start a thread if anyone's interested to feedback to the forum how this goes and what I end up having to go through to get this to work. And of course if it was worth it in the end.
Absolutely! I'm sure many would love to see this chronicled.
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:57 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by mcgousha View Post
Hey, that's my car

Happy to start a thread if anyone's interested to feedback to the forum how this goes and what I end up having to go through to get this to work. And of course if it was worth it in the end.
ALL OF MY YES.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:30 PM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by mcgousha View Post
Hey, that's my car

Happy to start a thread if anyone's interested to feedback to the forum how this goes and what I end up having to go through to get this to work. And of course if it was worth it in the end.
Oh my yes. Even though I wouldn't consider an electric drivetrain for my 996, I find electric cars fascinating and would love to see every bit of your build.
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:33 PM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by Charles Navarro View Post
I'd just be sure to remove the grease seal on the IMS bearing before the flywheel goes on, so as to allow the engine oil to lubricate the bearing. That's going to maximize it's service life.
Why does Porsche even install a grease seal on the bearing if it reduces service life?
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Old 05-16-2019, 01:47 AM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by wsrgklt View Post
Why does Porsche even install a grease seal on the bearing if it reduces service life?
It was a mistake.
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:53 AM
  #142  
Charles Navarro
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Originally Posted by 808Bill View Post
It was a mistake.
Supposedly for the same reason they put a sealed 6204 bearing inside the manual gearbox, when in all prior models all grease seals were omitted, allowing for splash lubrication with the gear oil. These are known to fail as well from what I am told.
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Old 05-19-2019, 09:39 PM
  #143  
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I got a DM on the topic of 9xx pricing, so I thought I would post more info here.

It's important to note the 9xx listings on eBay are really for their rebuild service, which has some variable pricing. I called them up to get the scoop. The prices listed in the spreadsheet for 9xx motors reflect that my block is damaged and they can't take it as a core, so they have to sleeve it or replace it. Your situation may be different if your mode of failure is different.

Here are my notes from the call:

$8,250 + repairs
+3500 Block charge for stocked 3.4 engine
+5800 to resleeve up to 3.6
+400 to 3.8

Stock block includes installation if you ship the car to them
11,750 + shipping for installed stock motor
14,050 + shipping for resleeving up to 3.6L

If you are close to Long Beach and your block is in usable shape, this is probably one of the cheapest options available. Better than a used engine for similar money.

Last edited by wsrgklt; 05-20-2019 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 05-20-2019, 04:40 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by ltusler View Post
The Flat 6 program is simple.

You send them the car.
They evaluate the current engine.
You choose from the available options.
You send them a check.
They build the engine.
They put it on a engine dyno to begin break in. If it scatters at this point it's on their dime not yours.
They road test it and break it in more. If it scatters at this point it's on their dime not yours.
They ship the car back.
You put a smile on your face and drive like the wind.
Put that in the spreadsheet.
And this comes from a purchaser of ours from 2008 that knows the differences, and has lived with them for more than a decade of first hand experiences. Hundreds of track hours have been spent with our engine propelling his 996, and he has owned two different combinations of my engines.

That said, the point of "the engine costs more than the value of the car". This lies in the eyes of the beholder. For those who buy a cheap Porsche, they will soon learn that it is the most expensive Porsche they will ever own. For those that appreciate the car for what it is, the price is more than fair if they love the car. The very first question I ask anyone on the phone is:
"Do you love this car?"

If their reply is no, they'll likely sell the car broken (if they are smart) or they will be tricked by some cheap engine price, and therefore will spend even more money, on a car that they don't value with love. Today we hear all the time "I am exploring my options"... Well, we remember when there were no other options; you either bought our engine, or one from Porsche. There were no other options. We were literally laughed at for doing what we do back then, because a new engine was available from Porsche for 5-7K, 100% complete. Back then, we were still charging 16-20K for our engines, and maintained a 6 month backlog with no advertisement.

Over the years almost every shop that has popped up to do this work is doing it as an ancillary objective to their normal shop activities. They may "work on race cars" or whatever, and then they offer engines as well. None of them have a single objective of specifically working with engines, and therefore they lack capability, resources, and dedication to this single objective. Also, most all of these people have attended one of my training classes, either hands- on, or with Worldpac Training Institute where I instructed from 2011-2015, and travelled North America instructing their M96 class with Tony Callas. That said, I know when those people attended the class, and what their internal experiences with these engines were at that time.

This said, the amount of money that someone has doesn't make any difference to what they buy. We have customers save money for YEARS to finally be able to purchase an engine, and we work with them to balance their three equally spaced payments at a time that is favorable to their budget over the year- long period that we work with them. Not all of our purchasers are "loaded", many are just the opposite. They are hard working people who want to make sure they don't have to buy the same engine TWICE. They are smart people that understand that value, and cost are not related. They are people who have experienced the face of death with their engine, and don't want to go there again. Lastly, they are people who do their homework, and want to deal with an honest, upfront company that has earned their place in the industry. We make sure to give these people more than they pay for, so they tell their friends, and neighbors about us- so we don't have to advertise. This business is ran by the "Golden Rule", the rule that has been forgotten in modern business, especially those with fast talking sales people telling you what you want to hear.

We are booked solid for completions through July 2020 and not accepting new work at this time. If you want to be added to the wait list, submit a ticket, and we will add you in the order that your request was received. This weekend I had to start a newsletter just for the guys on the wait list, to get onto the wait list- we will always keep you informed.

Rather than going the route of every other provider, my experiences with the cars, and engines have driven my choices in how to offer what we create. We don't allow engines to be installed by other shops, we do not offer engines on a generic "exchange" program, and we take our time, and do each job like it's the most important job we will ever do.
It is.
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Flat 6 Innovations
Inventor of the IMS Solution:
US Patents 8,992,089, 9,416,697 & 9,909,469

Inventor of the Single Row Pro IMS Retrofit, and Faultless Tool with method of installation:
US Patent 9,687,974


www.flat6innovations.com
Engine Failure Hotline- 706-219.4874

M96/ M97/ 9a1 Engine Specialists-
-Extensive Internal Engine Repairs
-Performance Updated Engines

-Engine Rebuild Training Courses
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Old 05-20-2019, 04:53 PM
  #145  
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Jake—Is your calendar full for everything or just rebuilds? I’m planning on doing the Solution in the next year or so and you’re the closest authorized installer, I believe.

TC
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Old 05-20-2019, 05:14 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by AA717driver View Post
Jake—Is your calendar full for everything or just rebuilds? I’m planning on doing the Solution in the next year or so and you’re the closest authorized installer, I believe.

TC
Yes, completely booked.
I may do some IMS Solution work personally between classes at the Research/ Training facility, as long as the car isn't a tiptronic!

Other than that, we're not taking on any IMS Solution, or repair work till further notice. I refuse to over- book things here, or add new employees to meet the demand, only to have them create problems because I can't spend the time necessary to train, and test them.
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Flat 6 Innovations
Inventor of the IMS Solution:
US Patents 8,992,089, 9,416,697 & 9,909,469

Inventor of the Single Row Pro IMS Retrofit, and Faultless Tool with method of installation:
US Patent 9,687,974


www.flat6innovations.com
Engine Failure Hotline- 706-219.4874

M96/ M97/ 9a1 Engine Specialists-
-Extensive Internal Engine Repairs
-Performance Updated Engines

-Engine Rebuild Training Courses
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Old 05-20-2019, 05:42 PM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by AA717driver View Post
Jake—Is your calendar full for everything or just rebuilds? I’m planning on doing the Solution in the next year or so and you’re the closest authorized installer, I believe.

TC
Right up the road from you...

Till’s Import Car Clinic
1830 Boyscout Drive
Fort Myers, FL 33907
Phone: (239) 277-0797
Fax: (239) 277-9692
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Old 05-20-2019, 05:54 PM
  #148  
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Dave at Tills is a great installer. He does a very good job of pre- qualification, and from time to time he does "down" jobs. That tells us that he is doing his part, and doing it right.
__________________
Flat 6 Innovations
Inventor of the IMS Solution:
US Patents 8,992,089, 9,416,697 & 9,909,469

Inventor of the Single Row Pro IMS Retrofit, and Faultless Tool with method of installation:
US Patent 9,687,974


www.flat6innovations.com
Engine Failure Hotline- 706-219.4874

M96/ M97/ 9a1 Engine Specialists-
-Extensive Internal Engine Repairs
-Performance Updated Engines

-Engine Rebuild Training Courses
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Old 05-20-2019, 08:54 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by Flat6 Innovations View Post
Dave at Tills is a great installer. He does a very good job of pre- qualification, and from time to time he does "down" jobs. That tells us that he is doing his part, and doing it right.
End of discussion! Thanks guys!

TC
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