red993tt

Hi
I have been considered upgrading my 993 TT with Motec M600 for quite sometimes. Chris Powell at Chris's German Auto told me that he had ironed out many of the issues relating to the driveabilty aspects. I am also aware of the OBDII compliance issues. My car currently has upgraded Motronic ECU good for above 500hp. However, the tuning flexibities are lacking. I 'd like to be able to read data log, several mapping options and fine tune AFR for both tracks and street. Can anyone give more inputs on this upgrade . Thanks ahead.

Geoffrey

As a MoTeC dealer, I have worked with a number of turbo Porsches including the 993TT with a MoTeC ECU and conversion. The M600 is a great ECU for what you want to do, and I have worked with Chris on another MoTeC project and can recommend him. The keys to getting a car that runs well and doesn't cause you issues are:

A) Find a tuner who has the ability to properly tune the engine. This means using a steady state dyno such as a Dynapack or Dyno Dynamics which will allow for proper tuning of ignition timing.

B) Be prepared and willing to spend the money for the tuning process. This means dyno time for the base settings, and several days of cold start and general drivability. Remember, the OEMs spend 100,000 man hours tuning your 993tt so it runs under all conditions. The M600 ECU and software is complex with many tables to adjust. Additionally, the new version 3 software (much more flexible) will be released probably at the PRI show.

C) If you want to drive the car in cold weather, then it will need to be tuned in cold weather for cold starting and have the air temp compensation table validated that it is set properly. The default air temp compensation table does not work properly, and if used, the car will lean out and burn a piston. This comment applies to most ECU default air temp comensation tables.

D) Be sure your tuner spends some time with the injection timing table which will help with fuel economy and throttle response.

E) You will need larger injectors to support the available HP. You will be able to control the stock idle air control valve and the stock boost control valve with no issues.

F) You may want to have Chris check the cam timing. I have yet to see a 993tt with them set properly, or evenly between the engine banks. This causes a difference in AFR between the banks and can be seen in the data logging with dual lambda sensors on the M600 ECU.

G) You may consider upgrading the ignition system to dual plug, or certainly a better single plug ignition system such as a single channel CDI. The stock ignition system is not very strong

If you use a good pair of turbos, you will exceed the torque capability of the stock rod bolts, so you may find yourself in a position where you will want to open up the bottom end. The last non racecar or nearly stock 993TT (a Rennlister's car) I tuned produced about 535hp@.7 bar of boost. This is mainly due to a set of very efficient turbos and the MoTeC's ability to properly control the engine.

red993tt

Geoffrey
Thank you. That was very informative. I will need to discuss with Chris all the above issues you had mentioned

Woodster

Wow are we lucky to have access to people like Geoffrey !!!!!

this rennlist is an amazing place,

MK
btw, what were the turbos supporting that much H.P. at such low boost ??

Jean

Red
You might want to contact Protomotive, they have a Motronic calibration software that they sell with their Motronic upgrades. Not nearly as flexible as a Motec, but you might not need it either, and you also keep factory Motronic knock-sensing capability, which is a big plus, and a much cheaper option. Add a datalogger on your car and you have the best of both worlds.
Not related to them, but a happy customer.

Geoffrey

The turbos were Kevin's stage 2 turbos. I don't recall if they had zero clearance technology applied or not.

edpurplett

Mr. 3.8 :-),

If budget isn't factor, the Motec is a great idea... but I too am a massive fan of Protomotive's gear.. I am on my third 'rig'.... basically a divider network for the MAF which is good for 600-650 HP versus 490-500 , or you can go pressure sensing like Jean with no practical limit if youre insane and want stupid horsepower levels... together with their software the dirveability is AMAZING...I idle at about 850 RPM...I love Motec cars and Geoffrey..... but the set-up and cost can be daunting... take your pick but I presonally would talk to Protomotive... they have been doing EFI Bosch turbo cars for 15 or so years...

JMHO.. Ed

red993tt

Jean and Ed
I will give Promotive a call. I had also looked into to GIAC and other ECU softwares ,eg. Andial and Imagine Auto ect... They all seems to have the best bang for your bucks quality and many people have them. But unlike Motec which have lots of flexibilities and allows you to tweak the software as well as data logging with my labtop. I had gained a lot of experiences with labtop tuning from the AEM system that I had on another car. In all honesty, I just want a system that best protect the 3.8L engine while geting the most out it. I 'd like to hear more pro and cons in regard to Motec.

Geoffrey

FWIW, as an alternative to MoTeC, I would also recommend Todd from Protomotive. His approach is the same as a tuner with MoTeC, the only difference being that he uses a Motronics ECU rather than a MoTeC ECU. He is one individual who really understands the tuning process.

Woodster

Now that's a class act!

MK

BC

You are familiar with the AEM? Which car did you tune one on? Why would you not make the AEM work for your car if you are familair with it, whether the "universal" or a 1050 or 1040 that will have all the inputs and outputs you need? At half or a quarter of the original price of a MO(NEY)Tech?

red993tt

My Supra had AEM. Unfortunately,I don't think they have anything for 993tt.

Red9

Geoffrey, you state that Protomotive can do with the Motronic what can be done with Motec in programming. Is that correct? What differences are there in what the end result might be.

Kevin

There is no reason to tear the Motronics off your car. As a Autronics dealer, I will be the first one to say that as good as a system that the Autronics system is, it would not be a good choice to get rid of the "stock system"

Red9

Kevin ( & others) -- what do the respective systems do the same,better,worse than each other.Specifically -- why stay on Motronic?Change to Autronic or Motec?Can the Motronic system be programmed like the other 2? Who?How? Thankyou.