60-130 MPH: New performance measurement!
#436
I have found the v-max bug that makes you crave more power lasts for approx. 3 days after the event. The remedy is to drive your car on the road again straight away and appreciate just how fast it is in isolation, and to not compare it to stuff with 100's of hp more that whistle past you at 150 like you are in reverse Though I don't think much would whistle past TB.
Maybe you could just come to watch? Whilst it is great to talk numbers, it’s awesome to see the results of the various packages from zero - near 200 mph speeds in action. Plus been able to sit in the passenger seat for some of these runs!
Below is a pic taken from Adam's red R turbo at approx. 150 as I changed into 6th gear. The speed the RUF pulled away at this speed is quite incredible.....all I could do was wave goodbye.
Maybe you could just come to watch? Whilst it is great to talk numbers, it’s awesome to see the results of the various packages from zero - near 200 mph speeds in action. Plus been able to sit in the passenger seat for some of these runs!
Below is a pic taken from Adam's red R turbo at approx. 150 as I changed into 6th gear. The speed the RUF pulled away at this speed is quite incredible.....all I could do was wave goodbye.
#437
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
MOD 500 your car is gorgeous. What kind of engine setup do you have..and have you timed a 60-130 run? That GT2 wing that you have will not help you much with aerodynamics above 150 mph, you can actually feel it pulling you back at speeds can't you?
#438
Thanks, Jean.
Have not timed a 60-130 run since I got a fresh turbo, but am going to a speed day this w/e hopefully if works pans out ok. So will try to get someone to video the speedo.
The engine is stock, with a 430 ecu, plus Techart exhaust and 100 cell cats.
Yep, the rear wing does hold me back. Upon changing into 6th at full throttle you can feel the acc of the car easing off as drag really catches up with the wing! I would be interested to know how much downforce the front and rear spoilers combined produce. The pic above was taken at ~150 and at that time I still had the OEM suspension, and the carlooks to be sitting quite low so downforce must be quite good? Have PSS 9 on now, and it has made the car alot more stable at speed.
Hope yours is running well.
Thanks
Martyn.
Also, after reading a comment on another speed orientated thread, I would like to emphasise how seriously I take safety at these speed days, I am not posting to brag or boast, far from it.....I like sharing experiences, pics, and videos with like minded others. I may be quite young, but am not some flash monkey boy!
Have not timed a 60-130 run since I got a fresh turbo, but am going to a speed day this w/e hopefully if works pans out ok. So will try to get someone to video the speedo.
The engine is stock, with a 430 ecu, plus Techart exhaust and 100 cell cats.
Yep, the rear wing does hold me back. Upon changing into 6th at full throttle you can feel the acc of the car easing off as drag really catches up with the wing! I would be interested to know how much downforce the front and rear spoilers combined produce. The pic above was taken at ~150 and at that time I still had the OEM suspension, and the carlooks to be sitting quite low so downforce must be quite good? Have PSS 9 on now, and it has made the car alot more stable at speed.
Hope yours is running well.
Thanks
Martyn.
Also, after reading a comment on another speed orientated thread, I would like to emphasise how seriously I take safety at these speed days, I am not posting to brag or boast, far from it.....I like sharing experiences, pics, and videos with like minded others. I may be quite young, but am not some flash monkey boy!
#440
Rennlist Lifetime Member
Originally Posted by marc@DEVEK
Stephen,
If that is your going in "specification", then you have successfully met that specification. Porsche and others may have a different specification that states that in addition to drivability for 200,000KM on whatever grade fuel, and a long list of criteria, and that a 20 minutes at full tilt is part of the specification, and if they meet those specs, then all is good. I think Porsche and other Euro tuners fall into the later group with detailed specifications.
It is all about what you set is the goal and how you test to verify the meeting of those goals.
Regards,
Marc
If that is your going in "specification", then you have successfully met that specification. Porsche and others may have a different specification that states that in addition to drivability for 200,000KM on whatever grade fuel, and a long list of criteria, and that a 20 minutes at full tilt is part of the specification, and if they meet those specs, then all is good. I think Porsche and other Euro tuners fall into the later group with detailed specifications.
It is all about what you set is the goal and how you test to verify the meeting of those goals.
Regards,
Marc
#441
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Martyn,
Thanks for sharing, for the contrary, we love to hear about it. I have the data for the rear GT2 wing, I will check it out when I go home, I know it is substantial, as I can actually feel the difference when I am in a stock TT..With the 430 factory kit, you are no match for a RUF!! There is nothing wrong about doing some speed runs as long as you are conscious of the danger I guess, each one has his own threshold of risk, I am a whimp.
Thanks for sharing, for the contrary, we love to hear about it. I have the data for the rear GT2 wing, I will check it out when I go home, I know it is substantial, as I can actually feel the difference when I am in a stock TT..With the 430 factory kit, you are no match for a RUF!! There is nothing wrong about doing some speed runs as long as you are conscious of the danger I guess, each one has his own threshold of risk, I am a whimp.
#442
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
These watercooled cars can certainly run for 100k miles as long as they are kept withing reasonable boost levels I believe (1.1-1.2 Bar max.)
When some of the tuners want to get to "750/800/900HP" numbers to stamp them on the kits, they are having to run 1.4-1.6+ Bars of boost, while some of the good Eureopean tuners are running 1.2 Bar and have faster cars (and no blown MAFs or CEL lights)....Why?
The stock MAF is a piece of cr*p for high performance cars, it will not maintain a decent AFR map with Motronic over certain cfm levels, this threshold is around 600hp.......why? Because you will need more aggressive cams to reach those levels, and this is when the MAF will create air mass oscillations at low engine speeds, becoming a rough car to drive at low speeds and a "confused" engine at high RPMs...Net net, you have very poor efficiency, kind of what the old CIS engines did...therefore, if you are running an air density setup (MAF) they have to compensate with boost to see the higher hp levels (ot they think so at least) , which obviously, will not hold with the heat increase...it is a vicious circle..That is why I believe, a GT750 might hold 600 hp on a dyno run made in the way some of those european tuners do.
With an aftermarket ECU, you can read from manifold pressure and calibrate better the AFRs with the timing, and have better efficiency on high hp level engines. I know Protomotive just finished testing a modified MAF setup with Motronic, and reached 827hp at 1.3 Bar on an engine dyno, the key to these numbers was the pressure sensing like setup. It needs extensive calibration though.
I am sure some of our gurus can add their 2 cents and correct me if I am wrong.
When some of the tuners want to get to "750/800/900HP" numbers to stamp them on the kits, they are having to run 1.4-1.6+ Bars of boost, while some of the good Eureopean tuners are running 1.2 Bar and have faster cars (and no blown MAFs or CEL lights)....Why?
The stock MAF is a piece of cr*p for high performance cars, it will not maintain a decent AFR map with Motronic over certain cfm levels, this threshold is around 600hp.......why? Because you will need more aggressive cams to reach those levels, and this is when the MAF will create air mass oscillations at low engine speeds, becoming a rough car to drive at low speeds and a "confused" engine at high RPMs...Net net, you have very poor efficiency, kind of what the old CIS engines did...therefore, if you are running an air density setup (MAF) they have to compensate with boost to see the higher hp levels (ot they think so at least) , which obviously, will not hold with the heat increase...it is a vicious circle..That is why I believe, a GT750 might hold 600 hp on a dyno run made in the way some of those european tuners do.
With an aftermarket ECU, you can read from manifold pressure and calibrate better the AFRs with the timing, and have better efficiency on high hp level engines. I know Protomotive just finished testing a modified MAF setup with Motronic, and reached 827hp at 1.3 Bar on an engine dyno, the key to these numbers was the pressure sensing like setup. It needs extensive calibration though.
I am sure some of our gurus can add their 2 cents and correct me if I am wrong.
#443
Rennlist Lifetime Member
Originally Posted by Jean
which obviously, will not hold with the heat increase...it is a vicious circle...
On the MAF. Keep in mind that the way it can be set, which is how mine is after a certain CFM the system switches to a table that is no longer looking at CFM rather several other systems to calculate trim. For example, boost sensor, MAT and so on. The way 7.2 was built, is it can search out other maps to allow the car to run safely. A tuner has the ability to look at those maps and tell the car which values are to be used and when they shouldn't be at any given level. This is really nothing new, just a matter of tuning it. When using an aftermarket ECU one can choose the same type of controls. For example most of the systems I have tuned will utilize 02 correction in the lower RPM map to help with drivability, however at a certain percentage of throttle/KPA I have the 02s no longer trimming and go to a locked map other than MAT/MAP compensation. So it is possible to create drivability without losing top end control. Now, making it drivable with a clutch that holds is a different story
#444
Rennlist Lifetime Member
I was just thinking I should be VERY clear on this statement. I use that argument on the 996TT only. The air-cooled motors have a limit due to the lack of thermal efficiency with the air cooling cylinders. The 996TT blesses us with coolant(yes I did say that ) and the game is changed.
#445
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Official Jack off extinguisher
Posts: 1,173
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Due to no boost restriction in the beginning the Alzen 996tt made according to engine builder Reinhold Schmirler ( RS tuning ) ,740 CRANK hp / 900 NM at ~ 6500 rpm.
Now with a change of rules the car makes 600 CRANK hp / 700 NM ~ 7500 rpm at 0.95 bar with a useable powerband from 4000 to 7500rpm. This is a full built race motor ( cams , headwork, pistons, rods, bla , bla ) with nothing left untouched plus , this is not a misprint , BOSCH itself is doing the ECU/ electronics tuning , so no aftermarket software cowboys here and runs at the toughest race track there is (RING) for the 24 hour race.
On a side note at or slightly above 7500 rpm's is the limit for a modified GT2/3/tt bottom end/block , period.
And despite some belittling a few posts back the runs on a H&R set up..............
680 , 750 , 900 hp to the wheels with some bolt ons , stage 69 software and maybe some rods ?
Let everybody come to there own conclusions.
Now with a change of rules the car makes 600 CRANK hp / 700 NM ~ 7500 rpm at 0.95 bar with a useable powerband from 4000 to 7500rpm. This is a full built race motor ( cams , headwork, pistons, rods, bla , bla ) with nothing left untouched plus , this is not a misprint , BOSCH itself is doing the ECU/ electronics tuning , so no aftermarket software cowboys here and runs at the toughest race track there is (RING) for the 24 hour race.
On a side note at or slightly above 7500 rpm's is the limit for a modified GT2/3/tt bottom end/block , period.
And despite some belittling a few posts back the runs on a H&R set up..............
680 , 750 , 900 hp to the wheels with some bolt ons , stage 69 software and maybe some rods ?
Let everybody come to there own conclusions.
#446
Originally Posted by BuddyG
Mod,
Nice car! Can you post some more pics!
Nice car! Can you post some more pics!
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...5008&f=133&h=0
All pics are copyright of Trackdemon - www.trackdemon.co.uk
#447
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Originally Posted by pole position
Due to no boost restriction
......................
680 , 750 , 900 hp to the wheels with some bolt ons , stage 69 software and maybe some rods ?
Let everybody come to there own conclusions.
......................
680 , 750 , 900 hp to the wheels with some bolt ons , stage 69 software and maybe some rods ?
Let everybody come to there own conclusions.
Konstantin
#448
Originally Posted by PorschePhD
The air-cooled motors have a limit due to the lack of thermal efficiency with the air cooling cylinders. The 996TT blesses us with coolant(yes I did say that ) and the game is changed.
Last edited by Rassel; 08-17-2005 at 08:07 AM.
#449
Rennlist Lifetime Member
Originally Posted by Rassel
It also cursed you with its looks...
#450
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by Rassel
It also cursed you with its looks...
I can say that because I owned a 97 993 turbo for 3 years and
30,000 miles and I did love the car. However the 30 year old
interior was definately due for a change.
I think the 996 turbo is the best of both. Anyhow I am on
the 993 turbo section so I better shut up.