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I'll throw my .02 in as I installed a pair last night.
First and foremost, I bought a set from Rudy, who happened to have an extra pair that matched my fathers 993 perfectly in a fairly rare combo, and he was nice enough to ship the across the country (brilliantly packed, I might add) and save me the hassle of ordering and waiting. He sent me tons of pictures, represented them accurately, and I don't regret the purchase for a minute.
But.... there are a couple things worth noting to anyone considering ordering them. It's fairly obvious to the trained eye that they were not delivered from Porsche. Here's why:
- The stitching is not a real French seam. It's a normal? seam with a contrast stitch on one side. I hope they hold up, but this is the biggest giveaway that Porsche didn't make these seats as they sit. I actually want to look into dyeing the contrast stitch to match. Id rather not see it at all than look at the faux French seam.
- The seams aren't all perfectly lined up. The drivers seat is 9.5+/10, but the passenger door side thigh bolster seam doesn't follow the edge. Not quite as bas as post #259 above, but almost. The lower seam on the inner bolster, which is completely covered by the console, is actually worse than the one in post #259. You will never see it, but to me, the mark of a true craftsman is the quality of the work they do that nobody will ever see. Finally, the bottom of the corner of the passenger seat where the leather ends and meets the hardback doesn't sit flat.
-Nit picky, but the Porsche logo sticker on the passenger side of the seat back isn't perfectly centered.
-The rails don't run as smoothly as the 20 year old rails that came out. I need to look into this more. Could just be lubrication required, but I've never had to lubricate my 964 or these 993 seats in over a decade of ownership. The rails also needed some encouragement to line up with the seat mounts.
-Finally, the seat adjustment switches are NOT new switches. They're still available from Porsche, I replaced one in the seat these hardbacks replaced a few years ago before I knew about the cleaning method. I had some issue with the drivers side adjustment in the HBSS, took it apart to clean it, and it was certainly not a newer switch. I ended up swapping it with the one I replaced about 5 years ago on the original seat, which still looked brand new relative to the one that came in the HBSS. Clearly used from a parts bin, not NOS, relative to the age of the seat. For what he charges, I wouldn't expect this to be the case.
All in all, the car they went in is a driver. It's far from stock and it will never go to Concours. Im happy to have them, my father who I bought them for is ecstatic. It was a frustrating install, but what isn't? From 10 feet, or to the untrained eye, or when you're sitting in them, nobody knows the difference. And they ARE very comfortable.
Sorry, wanted to take some cool shots at Hershey today, but the weather dictated the top stayed up while she was parked, so garage shots from last night will have to suffice.
Anyway, I have some of those sport seats Rudy buys from Waldemar (In fact the black ones shown in the center left of the picture set are mine).
I don't think I'd buy another set, but that is me. I'm picky but not over the top.
Foxman ordered a set and when I found out sent him this email in regards to the seats I have.
"Jim,
As I had said earlier I wish I knew that you were going to order some as it would have been worth your while to come check out mine first.
Some details probably don’t matter to everyone,but here is what I ran into doing my passenger seat today.
1. The leather is not the same coal black as original 993 leather. It is the color of newer Porsche leather. You can see in photo1/2
2. The seat bottoms are the same as regular seats, not so in real HB’s as the foam is different (but the cover the same).
3. He doesn’t prep the seat rails well, look at the rust in the channel in the front – highly visible, and also on the seat adjustment lever. (Hope you get better ones).
4. He just sprayed the rail sides and didn’t tape off the seat motors so they are now black, sort of.
5. The crest he uses (on all Rudy’s cars/seats) is the later crest used today. It is very different than what was used on 993’s in many respects (Horse, gridlines, etc.)but looks right at 5 feet.
This was the reason it took me 5 months to get my seats as he had to chase down the correct “stamp” for the crest and charged me more for the correct stamp.
6. The crest is placed approx. 2 ½” too low on the seat cover (see the red lines) and very faint. I’m surprised by this as both my cars w/ OEM HB’s it is in the same place.
7. Non-functioning seat switch – apparently he doesn’t test them. I ended up taking my passenger front one apart to clean.
So you can see why I’m not ordering another pair and also why some guys get them and turn around and sell them right away.
Mine are going in my black car and it is a driver so it doesn’t matter that much to me but still after shelling 5 grand you would think there would be more attention to detail. I would have much rather waited and spent a little more and got the real deal."
I figured I'd pass that along so you know what you are getting up front.
So, now that you two have seen them in the flesh, and hindsight being 20/20 vision, if you had a choice to do it again would you rather have these shiny new Waldemar seats, or some OEM seats that are NOT as shiny and are used, like these, for about the same price:
I would have bought an original pair had I been able to find them in cashmere...however I couldn't. While there might be a few niggles with waldemar's seats, they're pretty close and so far I've found his workmanship very acceptable.
993 owners should be happy there is someone like waldemar that offers such a service. My $0.02!
I am a little relieved to learn now that some of the details on these seats are not perfect reproductions. I mean no disrespect to anyone who bought them, because I have been drooling over these same beautiful hardback sport seats for a year. But I am very picky and a little obsessed, and any incorrect details would have driven me nuts. Instead, I am going with the attached seat. It is an authentic RS bucket seat, and I ordered and installed all of the original Porsche mounting hardware. I only have one for the driver's side, and though I got the seat at a good price, with the mounting hardware I am about half way to a pair of hardbacks. So I have had a few "what are you doing, you could have had a pair of hardbacks?!" moments. But the authenticity of the seat means a lot to me. I like my interior--black leather with unusual red piping around the center seat sections front and rear--so just changing out the driver's seat is a good solution for me. I will post pictures of the interior when I get it installed after painting the back.
Last edited by Silver Surfer; 09-06-2017 at 02:53 PM.
I would have bought an original pair had I been able to find them in cashmere...however I couldn't. While there might be a few niggles with waldemar's seats, they're pretty close and so far I've found his workmanship very acceptable.
993 owners should be happy there is someone like waldemar that offers such a service. My $0.02!
I'll throw my .02 in as I installed a pair last night.
First and foremost, I bought a set from Rudy, who happened to have an extra pair that matched my fathers 993 perfectly in a fairly rare combo, and he was nice enough to ship the across the country (brilliantly packed, I might add) and save me the hassle of ordering and waiting. He sent me tons of pictures, represented them accurately, and I don't regret the purchase for a minute.
But.... there are a couple things worth noting to anyone considering ordering them. It's fairly obvious to the trained eye that they were not delivered from Porsche. Here's why:
- The stitching is not a real French seam. It's a normal? seam with a contrast stitch on one side. I hope they hold up, but this is the biggest giveaway that Porsche didn't make these seats as they sit. I actually want to look into dyeing the contrast stitch to match. Id rather not see it at all than look at the faux French seam.
- The seams aren't all perfectly lined up. The drivers seat is 9.5+/10, but the passenger door side thigh bolster seam doesn't follow the edge. Not quite as bas as post #259 above, but almost. The lower seam on the inner bolster, which is completely covered by the console, is actually worse than the one in post #259. You will never see it, but to me, the mark of a true craftsman is the quality of the work they do that nobody will ever see. Finally, the bottom of the corner of the passenger seat where the leather ends and meets the hardback doesn't sit flat.
-Nit picky, but the Porsche logo sticker on the passenger side of the seat back isn't perfectly centered.
-The rails don't run as smoothly as the 20 year old rails that came out. I need to look into this more. Could just be lubrication required, but I've never had to lubricate my 964 or these 993 seats in over a decade of ownership. The rails also needed some encouragement to line up with the seat mounts.
-Finally, the seat adjustment switches are NOT new switches. They're still available from Porsche, I replaced one in the seat these hardbacks replaced a few years ago before I knew about the cleaning method. I had some issue with the drivers side adjustment in the HBSS, took it apart to clean it, and it was certainly not a newer switch. I ended up swapping it with the one I replaced about 5 years ago on the original seat, which still looked brand new relative to the one that came in the HBSS. Clearly used from a parts bin, not NOS, relative to the age of the seat. For what he charges, I wouldn't expect this to be the case.
All in all, the car they went in is a driver. It's far from stock and it will never go to Concours. Im happy to have them, my father who I bought them for is ecstatic. It was a frustrating install, but what isn't? From 10 feet, or to the untrained eye, or when you're sitting in them, nobody knows the difference. And they ARE very comfortable.
Sorry, wanted to take some cool shots at Hershey today, but the weather dictated the top stayed up while she was parked, so garage shots from last night will have to suffice.
One final thank you to Rudy for the hookup.
IMG]
JP,
I also found the rails to be a little stiffer than before. They're fully operable, just not quite as smooth as my stock seats. I'm guessing these are older seats that he's refurbishing. I had the same experience with a pair of seats that I purchased from Lart, which were first rate seats. I also had the benefit of Cemoto warning me about a few of the issues he previously had (see his post above), so I alerted Waldemar to these items and asked him to yake extra care.
I don't have any issues with the stitching alignment, but I do note a few spots where the foam padding wasn't carved perfectly and there are appear to be a few pock marks on the passenger seat bottom. I think most of these issues come from the foam padding that he has to shape. Not glaring issues, but they're there.
I'm not sure, however, that I understand your comment on the French stitching. I may just be missing it, but I compared my stock gray seats to Waldemar's cashmere seat covers and they appear to be largely the same. I find that the quality of Waldemar's seat covers is one of the greatest assets of these seats. The quality of the leather is first rate, and as you note the seats are very comfortable. My daughter and I have been touring local colleges and a five hour trip to Ithaca was effortless, and I was comfortable on the seat the whole ride. The leather also smells great. .
Here's a comparison of the stock gray sport seat to Waldemar's cashmere seat. Is there something I'm missing on the stitching?
Oh and yes, I would buy these seats again in a heartbeat. They really transformed the interior of the car.
And Silver Surfer, beautiful seat! Perfect for the track if you're 5' 8" or less. Unfortunately with that seat my head slams into the roof with my 6' 4" frame and I can't even turn the steering wheel as my right knee (which is locked in place by the side bolsters) kept getting in the way.
Oh and yes, I would buy these seats again in a heartbeat. They really transformed the interior of the car.
And Silver Surfer, beautiful seat! Perfect for the track if you're 5' 8" or less. Unfortunately with that seat my head slams into the roof with my 6' 4" frame and I can't even turn the steering wheel as my right knee (which is locked in place by the side bolsters) kept getting in the way.
Thanks Foxman! I am 5' 10" (ok, maybe closer to 5' 9.5"), so I am hoping I fit ok. I would like to do DE, so I will need to be able to wear a helmet. My stock seat is set at its lowest level, so I am hoping these will sit at least as low. The rear of the RS seat is on the lowest mounting hole, and the front is in the middle of three. I will post something about fit when I get it mounted.
Can someone actually confirm that he makes the seats for LA Dismantler? They claim they bought the stock of Porsche's old parts and he claimed otherwise as well. In fact, I specifically ordered from LA Dismantler and paid more after directly asking both of them this question and deciding I'd rather have the OEM components. Would be nice to confirm if I was lied to.
So, now that you two have seen them in the flesh, and hindsight being 20/20 vision, if you had a choice to do it again would you rather have these shiny new Waldemar seats, or some OEM seats that are NOT as shiny and are used, like these, for about the same price:
For me, I'm happy I have the wademars because I would never find cashmere used seats and thanks to Rudy I didn't have to wait.
If I had a black interior, I would buy the used OEM 100%.
If I had a local upholsterer that I really loved and trusted, I would buy the OEM seats and have them recovered locally. But I have no such convenience. You would think with all the expirence wademar has after making 20+ covers for these seats, the seams would all be coming out perfectly by now. The fact that they aren't, combined with the fact that I've seen so many other less than perfect recoverings of so many different seats, Porsche and otherwise along so very few "perfect" recoverings, leads me to believe it's just not that easy. I'm really starting to dread getting my soft back sport seats in my 964 recovered. Everyone points to Classic9 as a go-to, but have you seen their "examples" page on their site? I would be furious with some of those results! I would love to hear from anyone on the East coast of the US that has had a really great expirence with an upholsterer.
04-22-2017, 05:18 PM
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