IXLR8

Absolutely! Imagine eating the same sandwich for 13 straight years.

Well in that case, Olio Carli

Slow Guy

Well just to stir the pot a little bit more I seriously doubt Exxon-Mobil has kept the same additive mixture in your 15w50 for the last 13 yrs. either......

Mike J

It gets better than that - outside of oil analysis which gives some indicators, you really do not know how good a job an oil is doing unless you tear the engine down and inspect everything, and have enough experience to note if the wear is unusual... so these comments like "I switched to oil xxx and its really good!" as suspect unless there is some sort of measurement you can use.

I did see a good drop in wear metals using V-Twin since I got the Turbo, so that is good for me.

Cheers,

Mike

Paul902

Mike, I'm curious what oil you saw the drop wrt?

Mike J

Not 100% sure, the records show LM 2041 - Lubro Moly Voll-Synthese 5W-40 used on the last maintenance, but that was used for top-up when the resealed the valve covers and chain covers. The records get more generic (like "Oil") before that. The first oil analysis was with the oil that was in the car when I bought it, and it showed viscosity close to 10-40, but with readings of Chromium and Iron higher than average. After 1 change of V-twin, Chromium dropped to about 40% of the previous value, and is now very close to average, and Iron dropped by 50% to right on the average. Interestingly enough the Zinc in the original oil was 1117 ppm, but the v-twin was 1617. Lots of zinc in V-twin, hard on the cats but good for the bearings!

Flashpoint is also interesting, original oil was 375F, but the v-twin is 450F -> quite a bit higher.

There are also some articles with a good analysis of the V-Twin as compared to other motorcycle oils, one that was very details and scientific, I like the results, the oil is good and stable at higher temperatures. Downside might be the high zinc on the cats, but I am wiling to live with that.

Cheers,

Mike

Paul902

Thanks, Mike. For comparison, of sorts (different engines, driving, etc), my last change at 6700km with M1 15-50 showed iron about 30% higher than universal average at 14ppm, while chromium was at average of 1ppm. My zinc and phosphorus showed 1186 and 1028 ppm, respectively. Flashpoint was 380 F. The TBN was down to 6.6, showing lots of life left in the oil, and, not surprisingly, no coolant traces were found.

Is there any significance to the flashpoint from a protection perspective?

I agree with you, it is paramount to have data.

Mike J

I suspect if your oil is starting to flash, you are too damn hot, even at 300F.. :-)

Funny, for my car (1997 Turbo), Blackstone considers a universal average for iron to be 16ppm, which is what I got on my last analysis. Chromium universal average is 1 on my report, so that matches. Maybe the Turbo's have different wear characteristics (never mind the Turbos are in the oil circuit and doing their contributions...).

I did not do the TBN, I know there is more life left in oil. Like you, not antifreeze found in the oil!

Cheers,

Mike

dianeandpablo

Grab an extra large pair of channel locks...perfect fit without removing the oil return line (which I've never done) and twist...as if it was made for it. I never torque ANY filter to spec, using three fingers to screw it tight enough works like a charm and makes it a snap to remove it at the next service.

earossi

I think you are correct. On teardown of my motor I found the first lubrication related faillure I've ever experienced. The US EPA changed regs in the early 2000's to require longer life on cats. The API and oil companies responded by dropping ZDDP levels in oils to about half what they used to be. That includes Mobil 1. The Mobil 1 motorcycle oil still has the old formulation for zinc, since motorcycles are not required to be fitted with cat converters (yet!!)which is why you are seeing folks switch to it, since it is available in the 20W50 weights recommeneded for Porsche engines.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

That's the most accurate statement I've read here,...

This is precisely why one needs to talk to experienced, professional engine builders for input on this subject since those are folks who see and measure the long-term effects of lubricants and maintenance regimens.

IXLR8

And it even may have been a matter of materials. What failed, by the way?

BMW motorcycles were the first to employ catalytic converters and they have been doing so for well over 10 years; probably 20. Many owners use automotive oil.

IXLR8

I wasn't talking about my 993. You couldn't get a pair of channel locks on the vehicle I was referring to. And you couldn't use three fingers either.

But as for the 993, I choose to remove my oil line.

IXLR8

And that would be valid if you had control over the vehicle's maintenance from day-one off the assembly line. Considering many are not one-owner cars, I doubt that is the case.

And then you would need a sample of a few hundred vehicles under those conditions. You'd also want to know the conditions the vehicle is operated under.

earossi

Camshaft lobe.

IXLR8

One or all of them? How did the rocker look?

My daily driver Honda (overhead cam) running on Mobil 1 since new has perfect cam lobes (wash the cam and you can put it on the shelf) at 148K miles. Strange.