Choice of engine oil
07-13-2012, 07:04 PM
#76
Mobil 1 VTwin 20-50w has treated me right with my motorcycles of the past and in my old BMW 635 (yes it likes higher zinc content as well)... I will be using that going forward in my 993... easy to get wherever you go, millions of miles of use... proven...
10-05-2012, 10:27 AM
#78
Rennlist Member
I have yet to have an oil related failure on any vehicle, car or motorcycle, in 37 years of ownership.
10-05-2012, 10:38 AM
#79
Rennlist Member
Solution:
1) punch a small hole in the top of the oil filter to allow the oil to drain,
2) drill six 6 mm holes into the oil filter socket,
3) install the oil filter socket on the oil filter and screw six sheet metal screws through the oil filter socket into the oil filter.
I've since been coating the oil filter seal with DC silicone grease instead of oil. No further problems.
By the way, Hazet 2169 oil filter socket fits our 993 oil filters as well; perfect fit.
10-08-2012, 09:37 PM
#82
The Mobil 1 High Miles line is really excellent, the 10w-40 should make everyone here happy.
EU simply doesn't allow oils with additive levels this high! What's the need for spec oil???
Dino 10w-40 or 20w-50s shouldn't be overlooked. High Miles oil is really where it's at.
imo, SynPower is the best OTC 20w-50 or 5w-40.
Brad Penn produces some spectacular results, but so does dino!
I have Havoline 10w-40 in mine now, with a splash of 10w-30.
Usually, I'll go 50/50 with 5w-40 and 10w-30 of the same brand. In many cases, the 5w-40 is more expensive than jug 30 weights.
I posted at length here http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-boxst...il-report.html
Should be something for everyone there, with decent references.
Yes, 15w-50 is too thick, even at freezing temps. imo, M1 15w-50 is not a good product. I'd rather dino Havoline or Pennzoil 20w-50.
Any questions about thickness of an oil can be investigated by putting a quart of it in the freezer next to a 10w-30 and compare.
Bottom line is the two important physical properties are the visc at start/warm-up, and the visc when max temp, or operating temp, is reached. If you don't exceed +220 to 225f, a 40 weight is all you need. 10w-40 is fine for starting above +20f or so. If those numbers align with your needs, no reason for anything thicker than 10w-40 or 5w-40 if you have winter. Really, 5w-40 is kinda thick on cold start. That's why Euro 0w- oils were developed. I like to see no greater than 5000cSt at cold start, with 10,000cSt as an absolute floor. 20w-50 doesn't really get you there.
EU simply doesn't allow oils with additive levels this high! What's the need for spec oil???
Dino 10w-40 or 20w-50s shouldn't be overlooked. High Miles oil is really where it's at.
imo, SynPower is the best OTC 20w-50 or 5w-40.
Brad Penn produces some spectacular results, but so does dino!
I have Havoline 10w-40 in mine now, with a splash of 10w-30.
Usually, I'll go 50/50 with 5w-40 and 10w-30 of the same brand. In many cases, the 5w-40 is more expensive than jug 30 weights.
I posted at length here http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-boxst...il-report.html
Should be something for everyone there, with decent references.
Yes, 15w-50 is too thick, even at freezing temps. imo, M1 15w-50 is not a good product. I'd rather dino Havoline or Pennzoil 20w-50.
Any questions about thickness of an oil can be investigated by putting a quart of it in the freezer next to a 10w-30 and compare.
Bottom line is the two important physical properties are the visc at start/warm-up, and the visc when max temp, or operating temp, is reached. If you don't exceed +220 to 225f, a 40 weight is all you need. 10w-40 is fine for starting above +20f or so. If those numbers align with your needs, no reason for anything thicker than 10w-40 or 5w-40 if you have winter. Really, 5w-40 is kinda thick on cold start. That's why Euro 0w- oils were developed. I like to see no greater than 5000cSt at cold start, with 10,000cSt as an absolute floor. 20w-50 doesn't really get you there.
Last edited by Audi Junkie; 10-08-2012 at 09:56 PM.
10-09-2012, 01:40 AM
#85
1200ppm Zink...or 1000ppm Zink and 3000ppm Calcium, 300ppm of Boron 
and 88ppm Moly???
As far as Zink proper, many new additives have come online; Boron, Antimony, Overbase Calcium (as seen above) even Titanium. I know Porsche has high spring pressures and elevated oil temps, but high Zink and Magnesium aren't necessary. They're not necessary for spec oils like Mobil 1 0w-40...which isn't thick either. Doug Hillary swears that's what guys use in 24hr Nurburgring, supplied by the Mobil Techs he hangs out with there.
Since I'm not in the Competition Forum, as I said before, If I had to walk out the door and purchase oil instead of going in my basement to my "stash", I'd be ALL OVER the Kendall GT-1 10w-40 with Titanium. It's no joke. Conoco developed it for their HD and PCMO oils. The stuff gets worked into the ferrous metals, what more could you want in an oil???
Lowes has it in gallons...?
Comes in a 15w-40 HD too...
(ha ha, first google image on this jug was from my post on Planet-9)
My other $.02c is that the best track oil I can conceive of is a $2 15w-40 HD oil that you can dump afterwards or as appropriate. HT/HS of 4.1cP and stout base oil that won't burn off....like Mobil 1 0w-40 does
. HDEOs get the newest formulations, every 3 years or so. Old spec oils can be 10 or 12 years old with ancient Mg/Zn package (formerly the old HD oil formula) High spring pressure, piston cleanliness, high HT/HS is exactly what you want in a Porsche oil, and it's cheap. Heck, I ran mine on some HD 30 that I had when I first got it.
Track or street makes a big difference. Are you starting the vehicle in +110f of +10f? 15w-40 is better than 15w-50 in cold, if someone has a PDS on a 15w-50 to share, I'll plot it. See the 20w--50 plot above..
It's fair warning to the tough guys who run 20w-50 "all winter".
I stand by everything I said.
and oh...
and 88ppm Moly???As far as Zink proper, many new additives have come online; Boron, Antimony, Overbase Calcium (as seen above) even Titanium. I know Porsche has high spring pressures and elevated oil temps, but high Zink and Magnesium aren't necessary. They're not necessary for spec oils like Mobil 1 0w-40...which isn't thick either. Doug Hillary swears that's what guys use in 24hr Nurburgring, supplied by the Mobil Techs he hangs out with there.
Since I'm not in the Competition Forum, as I said before, If I had to walk out the door and purchase oil instead of going in my basement to my "stash", I'd be ALL OVER the Kendall GT-1 10w-40 with Titanium. It's no joke. Conoco developed it for their HD and PCMO oils. The stuff gets worked into the ferrous metals, what more could you want in an oil???
Lowes has it in gallons...?
Comes in a 15w-40 HD too...
(ha ha, first google image on this jug was from my post on Planet-9)
My other $.02c is that the best track oil I can conceive of is a $2 15w-40 HD oil that you can dump afterwards or as appropriate. HT/HS of 4.1cP and stout base oil that won't burn off....like Mobil 1 0w-40 does
. HDEOs get the newest formulations, every 3 years or so. Old spec oils can be 10 or 12 years old with ancient Mg/Zn package (formerly the old HD oil formula) High spring pressure, piston cleanliness, high HT/HS is exactly what you want in a Porsche oil, and it's cheap. Heck, I ran mine on some HD 30 that I had when I first got it.Track or street makes a big difference. Are you starting the vehicle in +110f of +10f? 15w-40 is better than 15w-50 in cold, if someone has a PDS on a 15w-50 to share, I'll plot it. See the 20w--50 plot above..
It's fair warning to the tough guys who run 20w-50 "all winter".I stand by everything I said.
and oh...
10-10-2012, 01:29 AM
#86
(insert cut-n-paste rant)
All visc overlap at different temps. A 10w and be thicker or thinner than a 5w and so on and so on. Widman's visc calc is the only way I know to compare different fluids.
If you want a 40 weight oil, don't get Mobil 1 0w-40. It sheers into a 30 weight in 1000 miles. 5w-50 sheers like crazy and isn't good in cold either. Certainly it's not as thin as a 5w-20, right? idk where people get their ideas about w- ratings and "weights".
The way I see it there are 3 choices for the Porsche boxer engines...
5w-40
10w-40
15w-40
If you really want a 50 weight due to elevated oil temps, get 20w-50.
No one will be disappointed by selecting an oil this way, with 10w-40 being the default.
I have no problem mixing grades to adjust a bit up and down. My plan is to use 5 or 6 quarts of 5w-40 and a jug of 30 weight. It suits my climate and the fact I'm driving an automatic base Boxster. Plus, I choose slightly thinner viscs anyway. The need for anything thicker than 2.9cP (light 30 weight) is only necessary when oil temps are elevated, that is, a margin is built into the 3.5cP (40) spec of the Euro cars. We simply don't get elevated oil temps in North America driving, short of towing and mountain climbing.
I doubt anyone here will want to try the thick 30 weights, which DO meet the 3.5cP Euro spec, such as Mobil 1 HM 10w-30, German Syntec 0w-30, Brad Penn 10w-30, Redline (afaik), and a few others like Rotella T5 10w-30 "Semi-Synth", a REAL sleeper oil. Also, BMW Castrol 5w-30 being a standout, esp for extended drains.
I'll say it again, I have no problem with dino oils or Hi-Miles oils. Please, have at it with 15w-40 and 10w-40. I've Havoline 10w-40 in my car right now and would have no qualms going 5000 or 6000 miles on it. I'm actually changing it soon, as I really want to get some high-miles oil in asap (only had the car a month).
I dare anyone to run back-to-back UOA on 15w-40 and 15w-50. All 15w-50 will do is kill mpg and cause more wear. I'll bet the cost of an oil change with ANY oil your want!
For instance, Google Dr.AE Hass. He has a simply MENTAL collection of supercars, and does his own oil changes, often using 5w-20 in them. He pulls UOAs from his cars and his friend's identical cars, running Helix 5w-40 spec oil, and guess which consistently has lower wear? He does this with factory support.
Thicker oil = lower wear is completely mistaken.
All visc overlap at different temps. A 10w and be thicker or thinner than a 5w and so on and so on. Widman's visc calc is the only way I know to compare different fluids.
If you want a 40 weight oil, don't get Mobil 1 0w-40. It sheers into a 30 weight in 1000 miles. 5w-50 sheers like crazy and isn't good in cold either. Certainly it's not as thin as a 5w-20, right? idk where people get their ideas about w- ratings and "weights".
The way I see it there are 3 choices for the Porsche boxer engines...
5w-40
10w-40
15w-40
If you really want a 50 weight due to elevated oil temps, get 20w-50.
No one will be disappointed by selecting an oil this way, with 10w-40 being the default.
I have no problem mixing grades to adjust a bit up and down. My plan is to use 5 or 6 quarts of 5w-40 and a jug of 30 weight. It suits my climate and the fact I'm driving an automatic base Boxster. Plus, I choose slightly thinner viscs anyway. The need for anything thicker than 2.9cP (light 30 weight) is only necessary when oil temps are elevated, that is, a margin is built into the 3.5cP (40) spec of the Euro cars. We simply don't get elevated oil temps in North America driving, short of towing and mountain climbing.
I doubt anyone here will want to try the thick 30 weights, which DO meet the 3.5cP Euro spec, such as Mobil 1 HM 10w-30, German Syntec 0w-30, Brad Penn 10w-30, Redline (afaik), and a few others like Rotella T5 10w-30 "Semi-Synth", a REAL sleeper oil. Also, BMW Castrol 5w-30 being a standout, esp for extended drains.
I'll say it again, I have no problem with dino oils or Hi-Miles oils. Please, have at it with 15w-40 and 10w-40. I've Havoline 10w-40 in my car right now and would have no qualms going 5000 or 6000 miles on it. I'm actually changing it soon, as I really want to get some high-miles oil in asap (only had the car a month).
I dare anyone to run back-to-back UOA on 15w-40 and 15w-50. All 15w-50 will do is kill mpg and cause more wear. I'll bet the cost of an oil change with ANY oil your want!
For instance, Google Dr.AE Hass. He has a simply MENTAL collection of supercars, and does his own oil changes, often using 5w-20 in them. He pulls UOAs from his cars and his friend's identical cars, running Helix 5w-40 spec oil, and guess which consistently has lower wear? He does this with factory support.
Thicker oil = lower wear is completely mistaken.
10-10-2012, 02:18 AM
#87
Mobile 1 engineers recommended 20-50w VTwin for track/ race applications in 993 based motors. It has a formulation (higher specific heat I assume) designed to significantly improve heat-rejection in air-cooled motors and hence allow the critical parts to run cooler. Since 993 motors are fundamentally cooling limited that's important, and will probably noticeably increase time between rebuilds. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best for a street car with cats, etc, but that's what they'd put in a 993 based track car. FYI.
10-10-2012, 09:44 AM
#88
Race Director
Mobile 1 engineers recommended 20-50w VTwin for track/ race applications in 993 based motors. It has a formulation (higher specific heat I assume) designed to significantly improve heat-rejection in air-cooled motors and hence allow the critical parts to run cooler. Since 993 motors are fundamentally cooling limited that's important, and will probably noticeably increase time between rebuilds. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best for a street car with cats, etc, but that's what they'd put in a 993 based track car. FYI.
A formulation that significantly improves heat rejection? I'd like a detailed explanation on that.
10-10-2012, 10:56 AM
#89
Rennlist Member
I love all these recommendations by owners and mechanics which are based on what? A million miles of detailed testing which would require an engine tear-down when new to measure all moving components and then another engine tear-down at one million miles to do the same, and then take the average and std. dev. of a thousand cars tested.
Cripes, if we put this much effort into a cancer research, we'd have a cure already.
Cripes, if we put this much effort into a cancer research, we'd have a cure already.
10-10-2012, 12:53 PM
#90
Rennlist Member
Mobile 1 engineers recommended 20-50w VTwin for track/ race applications in 993 based motors. It has a formulation (higher specific heat I assume) designed to significantly improve heat-rejection in air-cooled motors and hence allow the critical parts to run cooler. Since 993 motors are fundamentally cooling limited that's important, and will probably noticeably increase time between rebuilds. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best for a street car with cats, etc, but that's what they'd put in a 993 based track car. FYI.
As far as Zink proper, many new additives have come online; Boron, Antimony, Overbase Calcium (as seen above) even Titanium. I know Porsche has high spring pressures and elevated oil temps, but high Zink and Magnesium aren't necessary. They're not necessary for spec oils like Mobil 1 0w-40...which isn't thick either. Doug Hillary swears that's what guys use in 24hr Nurburgring, supplied by the Mobil Techs he hangs out with there.
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I have continued the PO's practice of mixing M1 0-40 and 20-50.