ADMs dropping
02-04-2023, 12:13 PM
#151
Racer
I find it hard to believe that 50+ dealers only got 2 Targa 4 allocations for the entire year; there are 200 Porsche Dealers in the USA so that would mean only 8 or so Targa 4 were delivered into the US. However, many have observed that Porsche is pushing the higher profit S/GTS models with the current shortages.
In the last year-18 months, we have only had 1 or 2 allocations for Targa across all model variants. AND we built a new dealership and got additional cars...Targa is like a once a year car for us.
Unicorn for sure.
02-04-2023, 12:15 PM
#152
Rennlist Member
ixsomerset I know a local Massachusetts dealer had a Targa 4S allocation back in November. I assume it's gone by now, but I can confirm they had one. I've been waiting for a C2S since March of last year and have been speaking to many dealers regarding allocations. They are all saying the same thing that they have barely received any sports car allocations over the last year. That dealer I mentioned in MA told me received the following in November 2022: 1 of each, 911 Base C2 Cabriolet, 911 Carrera T, 911 Targa 4S, 911 Turbo S Cabriolet. I suspect toph4242 got the T. Hopefully the next round which should be announced soon will get a lot of us who are waiting in the driver's seat.
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toph4242 (02-05-2023)
02-04-2023, 01:19 PM
#153
Advanced
The more of these stories I hear the more fortunate I am that I got a car in 2022. We have two dealers in Pittsburgh. I was on the waitlist for a C2S in Feb 2022 at the one dealer and I was 3 on one SA's list. Probably 7 or 8 on the dealer list. I was fortunate to talk with a buddy who had a long relationship with the GM of the other dealer and they had an open allocation for a C2S. This happened in July 2022. By the end of the month the order was placed at MSRP and car arrived at the dealer in early November 2022. Talking to the dealers, pre-covid you could get a car in 4 months. The second dealer told me it had been a while since they delivered a C2S. They tended to have more Turbos, GTS and GT3's recently.
02-04-2023, 02:05 PM
#154
Rennlist Member
If you don't want to pay an ADM, that is your choice (I would rather walk than pay one too). Passing laws preventing markets from working according to supply and demand is not the answer. The ability of customers to buy vehicles without the games will eventually force the needed changes. I absolutely agree that the dealer model is broken and eventually the legacy industry needs to get to an agency model (which is becoming the norm in Europe); or risk losing customers over the long term. Porsche is using an agency model in many markets worldwide, as are BMW and Mercedes. So far Ford has been the only automaker with the ***** to stand up to the dealership cartel in the United States with their recent changes...if they succeed others will probably follow suit. The fact remains that most customers do not enjoy dealing with dealers, and it adds a lot of cost to the vehicles having multiple layers of individuals (Salesperson, Managers, Dealership owners) who are profiting from each sale. Dealership owners, and General Managers likely know that these changes are on the horizon, and they are trying to profit as much as they can in the moment.
02-04-2023, 03:15 PM
#155
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
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P_S (03-17-2023)
02-04-2023, 03:19 PM
#156
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Discovered I've been royally strung along by a dealer on his waiting list for a Targa 4. I've been on the waitlist for over 16 months. This dealer promised an allocation by fall last year. Over the course of 2022 he told me I'd moved up from 7th to 4th on the Targa 4 waitlist.
Then I discover from a VERY reliable source that his entire region (probably 50+ dealers) only received 2 allocations in the entire year of 2022. So his "porky pies" were exposed. The Targa 4 waitlist is like waiting in line for a fairytale car that does not exist.
Bottom line - I am looking for a Targa 4S or Targa 4 GTS. Can pay a reasonable ADM if necessary. If you are a dealer or know a dealer who can get an allocation (V200) please private message me.
Feels like I've been in a queue that's not moving, finally found out and now I have to go to the back of a 18-24 month queue.
HELP ME OUT FOLKS!
Then I discover from a VERY reliable source that his entire region (probably 50+ dealers) only received 2 allocations in the entire year of 2022. So his "porky pies" were exposed. The Targa 4 waitlist is like waiting in line for a fairytale car that does not exist.
Bottom line - I am looking for a Targa 4S or Targa 4 GTS. Can pay a reasonable ADM if necessary. If you are a dealer or know a dealer who can get an allocation (V200) please private message me.
Feels like I've been in a queue that's not moving, finally found out and now I have to go to the back of a 18-24 month queue.
HELP ME OUT FOLKS!
But as I said elsewhere, nowadays there is no such thing as a true "wait list".
Rather, more aptly speaking, there are dealer "money lists" -- in other words, how much is this customer willing to pay for an allocation.
Ask yourself this, if you had walked into the same dealership that had you 7th on their "wait list" to begin with, and said, "I've got 100k burning in my pocket to pay an ADM on a Targa 4 allocation" then I bet you dollars to donuts, that dealer would find you a Targa 4 allocation, be it from their existing pool or via trade with another dealer in the country.
Which all goes to show, there is no such thing as a "wait list" -- unless by that term you mean "a list where a person will wait and wait and wait"
Good luck in your search.
Last edited by ipse dixit; 02-04-2023 at 03:20 PM.
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02-04-2023, 03:23 PM
#157
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
If you don't want to pay an ADM, that is your choice (I would rather walk than pay one too). Passing laws preventing markets from working according to supply and demand is not the answer. The ability of customers to buy vehicles without the games will eventually force the needed changes.
I absolutely agree that the dealer model is broken and eventually the legacy industry needs to get to an agency model (which is becoming the norm in Europe); or risk losing customers over the long term. Porsche is using an agency model in many markets worldwide, as are BMW and Mercedes. So far Ford has been the only automaker with the ***** to stand up to the dealership cartel in the United States with their recent changes...if they succeed others will probably follow suit. The fact remains that most customers do not enjoy dealing with dealers, and it adds a lot of cost to the vehicles having multiple layers of individuals (Salesperson, Managers, Dealership owners) who are profiting from each sale. Dealership owners, and General Managers likely know that these changes are on the horizon, and they are trying to profit as much as they can in the moment.
I absolutely agree that the dealer model is broken and eventually the legacy industry needs to get to an agency model (which is becoming the norm in Europe); or risk losing customers over the long term. Porsche is using an agency model in many markets worldwide, as are BMW and Mercedes. So far Ford has been the only automaker with the ***** to stand up to the dealership cartel in the United States with their recent changes...if they succeed others will probably follow suit. The fact remains that most customers do not enjoy dealing with dealers, and it adds a lot of cost to the vehicles having multiple layers of individuals (Salesperson, Managers, Dealership owners) who are profiting from each sale. Dealership owners, and General Managers likely know that these changes are on the horizon, and they are trying to profit as much as they can in the moment.
02-04-2023, 03:33 PM
#158
Pro
I empathize with your situation.
But as I said elsewhere, nowadays there is no such thing as a true "wait list".
Rather, more aptly speaking, there are dealer "money lists" -- in other words, how much is this customer willing to pay for an allocation.
Ask yourself this, if you had walked into the same dealership that had you 7th on their "wait list" to begin with, and said, "I've got 100k burning in my pocket to pay an ADM on a Targa 4 allocation" then dollars to donuts, that dealer would find you a Targa 4 allocation, be it from their existing pool or via trade with another dealer in the country.
Which all goes to show, there is no such thing as a "wait list" -- unless by that term you mean "a list where a person will wait and wait and wait"
Good luck in your search.
But as I said elsewhere, nowadays there is no such thing as a true "wait list".
Rather, more aptly speaking, there are dealer "money lists" -- in other words, how much is this customer willing to pay for an allocation.
Ask yourself this, if you had walked into the same dealership that had you 7th on their "wait list" to begin with, and said, "I've got 100k burning in my pocket to pay an ADM on a Targa 4 allocation" then dollars to donuts, that dealer would find you a Targa 4 allocation, be it from their existing pool or via trade with another dealer in the country.
Which all goes to show, there is no such thing as a "wait list" -- unless by that term you mean "a list where a person will wait and wait and wait"
Good luck in your search.
02-04-2023, 04:16 PM
#159
Advanced
02-04-2023, 04:21 PM
#160
Advanced
02-04-2023, 05:33 PM
#161
Ford's EV sales policy is that the EVs will be reserved by customers online and the dealers will sell at a fixed price. The dealers will get a flat fee for delivering the car. This is the same agency model that Porsche and others use in other markets. That is the first step...watch the Bronco and Raptor to come under those rules soon too. Legacy automakers need to do this to remove cost from the dealership sales channel...Farley said this system will remove $2000 per vehicle on sales costs.
02-04-2023, 05:49 PM
#162
Its not really an option...how do legacy automakers compete with the direct sellers (Tesla, Lucid, Rivian etc) when they are spending 2-3% of the price on selling while the legacy players are spending over 10%. A significant contributor to Tesla's massive margins (higher than Porsche despite much lower average transaction costs) is its direct sales model. Once it is a question of survival of the legacy automakers, with powerful unions behind them, governments will bend and change the dealership franchise laws.
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jwfrazier (05-28-2023)
02-04-2023, 07:57 PM
#163
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Ford's EV sales policy is that the EVs will be reserved by customers online and the dealers will sell at a fixed price. The dealers will get a flat fee for delivering the car. This is the same agency model that Porsche and others use in other markets. That is the first step...watch the Bronco and Raptor to come under those rules soon too. Legacy automakers need to do this to remove cost from the dealership sales channel...Farley said this system will remove $2000 per vehicle on sales costs.
But "fixed price" does not necessarily mean MSRP (at least nothing specifically in writing prohibiting it -- and even if it was, not sure it would be legally enforceable in the U.S.)
The dealers can still "fix" the price to be whatever they want to be. There's just more transparency as to what each dealer's "fixed" price is as it has to be on the website.
Source: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/09...nt-set-prices/
Last edited by ipse dixit; 02-04-2023 at 07:59 PM.
02-05-2023, 09:31 AM
#164
Three Wheelin'
Its not complicated. Its absolutely legal to enforce. Ford or any other manufacturer can simply choose to limit or not send at all any allocations of certain vehicles to dealers that refuse to agree to price caps on vehicles. You sell a Raptor at $30k over? No problem, we’re not sending you any more Raptors. Its that simple. Ford rep strikes a deal with the dealer principal, and if the dealer doesn’t honor it, Ford turns off their allocations. Porsche dealers aren’t supposed to sell over MSRP on new cars either (but of course they do anyway). Thats why many get reported sold, then are now sold as preowned vehicles with 200 miles on the odometer for huge markups. They do this to avoid incurring the factory’s ire and threatening their allocations.
Last edited by ryandarr1979; 02-05-2023 at 09:34 AM.
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usctrojanGT3 (02-14-2023)
02-05-2023, 09:38 AM
#165
Its not complicated. Its absolutely legal to enforce. Ford or any other manufacturer can simply choose to limit or not send at all any allocations of certain vehicles to dealers that refuse to agree to price caps on vehicles. You sell a Raptor at $30k over? No problem, we’re not sending you any more Raptors. Its that simple. Ford rep strikes a deal with the dealer principal, and if the dealer doesn’t honor it, Ford turns off their allocations.