Spiffx

What you are describing is called government “price regulation” or “price control”. Believe me, you don’t want it. It’s not good for the consumer, not good for the manufacturer, or for anyone else in the value chain. It’s also not good for the economy. There are countries that still do this though, and if you’re so keen on it, it’s not difficult at all to migrate to those countries. Not very many Porsches there though…

Spiffx

You pre-traded, I’d assume, to fix the price on your trade-in (i.e., avoid losing money on your trade-in if the market continued declining). So you also fixed an ADM on your purchase. If market declines and ADMs disappear, your trade-in would also decline. The way I’d think about it, the delta between the trade-in and the new car is probably about the same. Can’t have your cake and eat it.

ryandarr1979

Guys, you do you, but I won’t pay over MSRP, and if no one else did either, then those cars wouldn’t sell at over MSRP. Its not complicated. I was in the business myself for six years. I come from a family that owned a Ford dealer for 30+ years. My grandfather was the owner and was president of the New England Ford Dealers Association. He was good friends with Lee Iacocca. Having grown up around the business, and followed it closely all my life, I won’t pay over. It fuels the problem. I’ve heard Porsche dealer owners very recently say in the same sentence “we have no allocations……. and then say ………we had our most profitable year ever”. They cry about shortages, and chips and the Chinese market, and some of its real and some of its bull****, but obviously they’re doing just fine if they’re having banner years. I’m 43 and have owned seven 911s, four I bought new, and all for well under MSRP. Porsches have gotten WAY too expensive, and as much as I love them, I doubt I’ll be buying another. My 2019 GTS stickered at $145k and it was loaded. I ordered it with a 7% discount. A comparable car today is $170k, before dealer markup, if any. No way. When this vehicle market implodes, which it will, as more and more companies lay off high paying employees, there’s going to be a massive inventory increase. Those wait lists will all evaporate as the people in front of you drop out because they were laid off and can no longer buy the car.

ryandarr1979

“Thats why many get reported sold, then are now sold as preowned vehicles with 200 miles on the odometer for huge markups. They do this to avoid incurring the factory’s ire and threatening their allocations.”

ryandarr1979

By the way, has anyone else noticed the recent increase in dealers advertising new cars in the Rennlist classifieds marketplace?

Staffie Guy

Why is it for some folks the "art of the deal" is more important than the actual car? Nobody wants to pay more than they should, but if your only shot to get a 911 in the next year or so is to pay ADM, why stand on principle?

Spiffx

and this is why ADMs exist! 😝

jack_carls0n

Local dealer here in Central Florida called and offered a GT3 with 60k ADM!

Tupper

Oh, come on.

Maybe it’s because a $60k markup is so ridiculous, that’s why. We are humans and we have pride. The idea that the $60k is literally pure greed in someone else’s pocket rubs many of us the wrong way. And it’s for a friggin 911–which while great isn’t even that special of a car.

And to say that it is the “only” way to get a 911 is ridiculous. Getting a 911 is easy. Why should anyone ever be so desperate to get a 911 (or nearly any other sports car) that they will hand out $60k to pad somebody’s wallet for it?

ipse dixit

I am not an expert on such things, but I think that would be illegal -- i.e., manufacturer mandated price caps.

The Supreme Court in Leegin Creative Leather Products v. PSKS allowed manufacturers the ability to set price limits or floors, but left in place the concerns of vertical price integration with respect to price ceilings or caps (based on the Sherman Act antitrust principles).

So, it's not exactly, "not complicated"

malba2366

The situation between automakers and dealers is not as simple as other manufacturer/dealer relationships. For example Rolex has rules that official dealers can not sell watches over list, and this is 100% adhered to, Samsung has rules that all authorized dealers of their televisions have to sell at a fixed price. Automaker dealership franchise agreements allow dealers full pricing authority...the only recourse manufacturers have is to limit allocations to dealers who are not following whatever rules the manufacturer has set. GM and Ford have done this, as far as I know, Porsche has not done anything similar.

The dealers (across the industry) are shooting themselves in the foot with their behavior. These markups are a mere annoyance to most on here; but it has a huge effect on lower income customers trying to buy a vehicle they need to get to work. If this goes on for too long, eventually the dealership lobby will fall out of favor with politicians as constituents demand changes. Also, if bad dealership behavior negatively affects the big 3 automakers then the rules will quickly change....the UAW is way more powerful than NADA.

NastyHabits

Yes, it is complicated. Let's just start with the fact each state has a set of Franchise Laws. That's 50 different {51 if DC has it's own} laws concerning the "legality" of a Manufacturer withholding product. Factor in the Federal anti-trust laws {google is your friend} as they relate to Manufacturers selling thru independent dealers, and you just might modify your opinion that it is.....legal and simple, cause it's not.

ryandarr1979

People like you are the reason dealers get away with price gouging

Porsche992

I would be ok if Porsche raised prices because increase demand / supply / free market or whatever. But the dealer making more money or the same as Porsche on each car, and getting to pick and chose who their favorite customers are for allocations is not great to say the least.

pydpyypr

If it's from Westwood, yeah, it's gone. I was getting a haircut a few weeks ago in the Seaport and a guy came in who had just lifted it and put together a really nice build. Apparently was the result of someone else canceling. Believe with options and everything it was around $220k.