992 Carrera T Club
12-17-2022, 10:13 AM
#2671
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
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Lifetime Rennlist
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The weight reduction won’t noticeably change the way the car drives and feels, and in my view is really a red herring with the T. The real benefit over the base is PTV and PASM, which otherwise can’t be combined with RWD and the base engine. With the base Carrera, you’re getting a great car, but one with slightly compromised dynamics compared to an S or GTS. The T’s only compromise is slightly less power, which for me makes it better for driving on normal roads.
The following 2 users liked this post by arrivederci:
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Gibberish (12-17-2022)
12-17-2022, 10:42 AM
#2672
Yeah the rear seat delete is really just a novelty thing IMO just because you 'can' get it deleted from the factory. The car won't perform any differently with or without. Same as the side stickers. But they all are part of the T package...did I see something about ethos?
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arrivederci (12-17-2022),
Gibberish (12-18-2022)
12-17-2022, 10:43 AM
#2673
Rennlist Member
I'll say it again-if I'm gonna be concerned about weight then I'll start with myself and add some HPDE days at the Glen with the Niagara Region PCA Instructors.
12-17-2022, 11:04 AM
#2674
The real benefit over the base is PTV and PASM, which otherwise can’t be combined with RWD and the base engine. With the base Carrera, you’re getting a great car, but one with slightly compromised dynamics compared to an S or GTS. The T’s only compromise is slightly less power, which for me makes it better for driving on normal roads.
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Porsch (12-19-2022)
12-17-2022, 11:10 AM
#2675
I’m always looking for ways to reduce weight, as I’m sure many of us are. But there is a cost/benefit assessment to each decision. So I will keep back seats and add RAS because the benefits of each (for me) outweigh the relatively small costs in weight. The key part is “for me” — there are no wrong decisions, just (often passionate) personal preferences.
The following 5 users liked this post by FORENN:
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Spartakos (12-18-2022)
12-17-2022, 11:51 AM
#2676
Burning Brakes
Youre right. I definitely don't NEED it, but having driven 991s with and without, I want RAS more than the comforts I'm giving up 😀 And you are absolutely correct that I probably will barely utilize the potential of this car, but buying a 911 isn't really a rational choice for me to begin with. If I'm going to bite the bullet and embrace the insanity, I want the best driving car I can get for my money. I'll let you know how it turns out 😅
If you drove one with RAS and you want it based on the experience, then it’s no-brained… in fact I am getting an ‘order envy’, do tell us how it goes.
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time_sink (12-17-2022)
12-17-2022, 12:38 PM
#2677
That's an excellent question and one I wrestled with for a long time. I gave up a V200 on a nicely specced base with Jan delivery for the as yet unallocated T. The 120k base I ordered had all the features I'm skimping on with the T, along with an upgrade to the 20/21 Carrera Classic wheels.
Ultimately, I'm betting that SPASM, PTV, and RAS will enhance the driving experience enough that I won't miss the comforts I'm giving up. When I had my 2013 c2 I also drove a 2013 c2s with RAS, SPASM, and PDCC. Totally different animal and I would have gladly traded my sunroof, power seats, and Bose system for the improvements to the driving experience. I know the difference is less pronounced on the 992 generation, but ultimately I'd rather spend the money on things that enhance the way the thing drives and handles than on luxuries I can get cheaply on other cars. This thing is for preserving my inner child, not for coddling my aging body
Ultimately, I'm betting that SPASM, PTV, and RAS will enhance the driving experience enough that I won't miss the comforts I'm giving up. When I had my 2013 c2 I also drove a 2013 c2s with RAS, SPASM, and PDCC. Totally different animal and I would have gladly traded my sunroof, power seats, and Bose system for the improvements to the driving experience. I know the difference is less pronounced on the 992 generation, but ultimately I'd rather spend the money on things that enhance the way the thing drives and handles than on luxuries I can get cheaply on other cars. This thing is for preserving my inner child, not for coddling my aging body
12-17-2022, 01:39 PM
#2678
Racer
RAS is must imo
12-17-2022, 02:03 PM
#2679
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
RE rear seat delete
Does anyone know (maybe from the 991 T generation), if having four seats (versus 2 seats) affects the insurance rates?
It's oft said that 911's have a "back seat" b/c of cheaper insurance rates.
Does anyone know (maybe from the 991 T generation), if having four seats (versus 2 seats) affects the insurance rates?
It's oft said that 911's have a "back seat" b/c of cheaper insurance rates.
12-17-2022, 02:52 PM
#2680
Crazy story but while I was out on my test drive in the 991.1 with RAS, a dump truck in front of me dropped a bunch of lumber on the freeway right in my path. If I hadn't had RAS I'm not certain I would have managed to avoid damaging the front of the car.
At the time I told myself I'd be willing to spend an extra 20k on all the performance goodies. Now the 2023 T gives me the option of spending the same amount of money and trading some comforts for much better dynamics.
12-17-2022, 03:01 PM
#2681
Burning Brakes
Yeah there's conflicting info floating around RL on when RAS was introduced. I can tell you the 2013 C2S (991.1) car I drove definitely had it, but it is now sold so I can't point you at the ad. It was being sold by Shift for 85k at the time with 20k miles on the odo. I'm certain it had RAS because I had a hard time adjusting to the oversteer compared to my base and there was a distinct sensation of the rear end rotating around me on the bends. I even drove the car back to back with a 2014 Boxster and it felt more nimble to me (the adaptive suspension helped too). And since Shift allowed hour-long solo test drives back then, I was actually able to take it up into the mountains here in the bay area and chase it's limits. Said limits were ridiculously high compared to my base.
Crazy story but while I was out on my test drive in the 991.1 with RAS, a dump truck in front of me dropped a bunch of lumber on the freeway right in my path. If I hadn't had RAS I'm not certain I would have managed to avoid damaging the front of the car.
At the time I told myself I'd be willing to spend an extra 20k on all the performance goodies. Now the 2023 T gives me the option of spending the same amount of money and trading some comforts for much better dynamics.
Crazy story but while I was out on my test drive in the 991.1 with RAS, a dump truck in front of me dropped a bunch of lumber on the freeway right in my path. If I hadn't had RAS I'm not certain I would have managed to avoid damaging the front of the car.
At the time I told myself I'd be willing to spend an extra 20k on all the performance goodies. Now the 2023 T gives me the option of spending the same amount of money and trading some comforts for much better dynamics.
When I drove my boss’s Mazda 929 circa 1995, it had 4-wheel steering, where at low speed, below 50km/h if I recall, the rear wheels would turn in the opposite direction to the front ones, reducing turning circle. Above 50km/h the rear wheels would turn in the same direction as front, but at fraction of the angle, increasing high speed stability.
How does 911 RAS work?
12-17-2022, 03:10 PM
#2682
Burning Brakes
Very interesting, do you recall how does RAS work?
When I drove my boss’s Mazda 929 circa 1995, it had 4-wheel steering, where at low speed, below 50km/h if I recall, the rear wheels would turn in the opposite direction to the front ones, reducing turning circle. Above 50km/h the rear wheels would turn in the same direction as front, but at fraction of the angle, increasing high speed stability.
How does 911 RAS work?
When I drove my boss’s Mazda 929 circa 1995, it had 4-wheel steering, where at low speed, below 50km/h if I recall, the rear wheels would turn in the opposite direction to the front ones, reducing turning circle. Above 50km/h the rear wheels would turn in the same direction as front, but at fraction of the angle, increasing high speed stability.
How does 911 RAS work?
Note to self… I found a good reference: https://www.total911.com/technology-...axle-steering/
Similar to Mazda 929, but activated at diff speeds
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arrivederci (12-17-2022)
12-17-2022, 05:39 PM
#2684
Note to self… I found a good reference: https://www.total911.com/technology-...axle-steering/
Similar to Mazda 929, but activated at diff speeds
Similar to Mazda 929, but activated at diff speeds
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/9787...-steering.html
12-17-2022, 06:01 PM
#2685
Happy to be corrected by someone more knowledgable, but I'm certain that the only 991.1 model that got RAS were the Turbo and GT3. This Porsche video that was part of the launch of the 991.2 seems to support this:
I think the higher limits you're referring to may have been because of PDCC.
I think the higher limits you're referring to may have been because of PDCC.
Yeah there's conflicting info floating around RL on when RAS was introduced. I can tell you the 2013 C2S (991.1) car I drove definitely had it, but it is now sold so I can't point you at the ad. It was being sold by Shift for 85k at the time with 20k miles on the odo. I'm certain it had RAS because I had a hard time adjusting to the oversteer compared to my base and there was a distinct sensation of the rear end rotating around me on the bends. I even drove the car back to back with a 2014 Boxster and it felt more nimble to me (the adaptive suspension helped too). And since Shift allowed hour-long solo test drives back then, I was actually able to take it up into the mountains here in the bay area and chase it's limits. Said limits were ridiculously high compared to my base.
Crazy story but while I was out on my test drive in the 991.1 with RAS, a dump truck in front of me dropped a bunch of lumber on the freeway right in my path. If I hadn't had RAS I'm not certain I would have managed to avoid damaging the front of the car.
At the time I told myself I'd be willing to spend an extra 20k on all the performance goodies. Now the 2023 T gives me the option of spending the same amount of money and trading some comforts for much better dynamics.
Crazy story but while I was out on my test drive in the 991.1 with RAS, a dump truck in front of me dropped a bunch of lumber on the freeway right in my path. If I hadn't had RAS I'm not certain I would have managed to avoid damaging the front of the car.
At the time I told myself I'd be willing to spend an extra 20k on all the performance goodies. Now the 2023 T gives me the option of spending the same amount of money and trading some comforts for much better dynamics.