When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
All that said, the T is a real treat with RAS, RAS is not invisible, if you have some seat time you will feel it. I believe it raises the cars performance potential by a good bit. The car is competitive with all the curent GT cars for autocross, Maybe it would do as well without RAS. Can't speak to the track but, pretty sure it wont hurt a bit. The car is very, very easy to drive at the limits of traction with RAS. If your building a cruiser it might be overkill. For tight manuevering and any track type duty RAS is probably a plus. Either way, you will have one of, if not the best, driving cars out there.
I read a lot of discussion on this forum about RAS before locking my T build. It was one of the options I debated. In the end, I decided to include it mainly because it is an option you can't get on the base 911. That makes it somewhat unique for the T in my mind.
I like how you characterize it as "not invisible." Having a few months behind the wheel with RAS, I have noticed it in two distinct areas (both helpful): 1) as many have described it does make the turning radius and general maneuverability of the car at low speeds quite impressive, and 2) it has helped (some might say "saved") me a few times through corners where I was carrying too much speed. As someone who is new to the 911 platform, I am still adjusting to the feeling of the rear and and the way it changes braking dynamics. I find I have to be much more focused about dialing in my straight line braking during spirited driving. A few times I haven't quite got it right and when braking through the corner the rear wants to let loose. This is when I really feel the RAS. Someone described it as a feeling of pivoting around the midpoint of the car. I completely agree with that! It is an odd sensation at first, but I would consider it a useful feature for someone who is new to tracking and/or new to the 911 dynamics who wants a little extra peace of mind.
As @Wilder points out, if you have had prior experience with 911s you may not like this sensation - as it does change the way the rear of the car behaves. Personally, I would spec it again. The same cannot be said for FAL which I have maybe used once.
The great RAS debate - which may never end. I think of RAS similar to PDK. It objectively makes the car better - faster around a track, eases driver inputs, greater efficiency, etc. Subjectively, we all know why some want a manual though. RAS is obviously more subtle than PDK. I've noticed it mostly on low speed turns and in parking maneuvers. I did not have RAS on my 991T and did not select it on my 992T.
RAS is standard on GT cars because it no doubt improves lap times. RAS is conspicuously absent on the S/T though, and if you watch some of the initial press videos they talk about wanting to retain a traditional driving feel along with saving weight. Later videos they seem to only focus on weight savings though, probably don't want to ruffle feathers in the GT crowd. It was reported that there was a big debate in engineering when RAS was being developed for the 991 - some did not want it and others clearly did. The data on faster lap times sealed the deal and RAS became standard on GT cars. But that didn't resolve the driving feel question.
There is no clear right or wrong answer with RAS. Overall, RAS is subtle compared to something like PDK vs manual. I chose to keep it simple, save the weight and cost, and preserve whatever hint of 'traditional' driving feel there might be with a non-RAS car. If I were looking at a 991 or 992T and the spec was right, the presence or absence of RAS wouldn't be a deal breaker.
The great RAS debate - which may never end. I think of RAS similar to PDK. It objectively makes the car better - faster around a track, eases driver inputs, greater efficiency, etc. Subjectively, we all know why some want a manual though. RAS is obviously more subtle than PDK. I've noticed it mostly on low speed turns and in parking maneuvers. I did not have RAS on my 991T and did not select it on my 992T.
RAS is standard on GT cars because it no doubt improves lap times. RAS is conspicuously absent on the S/T though, and if you watch some of the initial press videos they talk about wanting to retain a traditional driving feel along with saving weight. Later videos they seem to only focus on weight savings though, probably don't want to ruffle feathers in the GT crowd. It was reported that there was a big debate in engineering when RAS was being developed for the 991 - some did not want it and others clearly did. The data on faster lap times sealed the deal and RAS became standard on GT cars. But that didn't resolve the driving feel question.
There is no clear right or wrong answer with RAS. Overall, RAS is subtle compared to something like PDK vs manual. I chose to keep it simple, save the weight and cost, and preserve whatever hint of 'traditional' driving feel there might be with a non-RAS car. If I were looking at a 991 or 992T and the spec was right, the presence or absence of RAS wouldn't be a deal breaker.
The RAS debate will never end, and one of the issues, especially for those new to the brand, is that most reviews and comments are of the "it's great! get it" or "I don't like it" variety, which are unhelpful. There is no right or wrong answer. There's just preference and application. It seems the launch of the ST has clarified for some when to check the RAS box with the blessing from the factory: yes for cars that will see track/autocross, skip for daily/weekend/fun road cars.
I think you have really nailed the essence of why a customer would choose to add / delete RAS.
An interesting point to note - I think Porsche might be doing some A / B testing with the configurator. I recently purchased a Cayenne for my wife and as I was selecting the options, there was a new feature under the main section headers (ex: Seats) where they provided a brief rationale for why a buyer might consider one configuration over another (ex: 8-ways vs. 14-ways vs. 18-ways in the case of the Cayenne). I really appreciated this addition and wish I had taken a screenshot.
We all understand what the individual options are in the configurator. Most of us understand how a particular option / feature works or differs from an alternative choice. But, much of the debates that emerge seem to be centered around why a person would choose to include or not include. I think this would be immensely helpful as an addition to the configurator.
I nominate @Wilder to be Porsche's new copywriter as your advice has been pretty bang on in the last 10 months I have been on this forum. If anyone from Porsche is on the forum, you can find Wilder somewhere in Mexico. 😂
The RAS debate will never end, and one of the issues, especially for those new to the brand, is that most reviews and comments are of the "it's great! get it" or "I don't like it" variety, which are unhelpful. There is no right or wrong answer. There's just preference and application. It seems the launch of the ST has clarified for some when to check the RAS box with the blessing from the factory: yes for cars that will see track/autocross, skip for daily/weekend/fun road cars.
Don't let the "ST didn't have it so...." crowd influence you. Here is the review of the S/T. from
Their take on the lack of RAS compared to GT3 is quite interesting. It comes down to preference but their take is that the steering is too slow in a car of the caliber w/o RAS.
The RAS debate will never end, and one of the issues, especially for those new to the brand, is that most reviews and comments are of the "it's great! get it" or "I don't like it" variety, which are unhelpful. There is no right or wrong answer. There's just preference and application. It seems the launch of the ST has clarified for some when to check the RAS box with the blessing from the factory: yes for cars that will see track/autocross, skip for daily/weekend/fun road cars.
I thought the decision to drop RAS from the S/T was more in the interest of achieving the lightest 911.
I think you have really nailed the essence of why a customer would choose to add / delete RAS.
An interesting point to note - I think Porsche might be doing some A / B testing with the configurator. I recently purchased a Cayenne for my wife and as I was selecting the options, there was a new feature under the main section headers (ex: Seats) where they provided a brief rationale for why a buyer might consider one configuration over another (ex: 8-ways vs. 14-ways vs. 18-ways in the case of the Cayenne). I really appreciated this addition and wish I had taken a screenshot.
We all understand what the individual options are in the configurator. Most of us understand how a particular option / feature works or differs from an alternative choice. But, much of the debates that emerge seem to be centered around why a person would choose to include or not include. I think this would be immensely helpful as an addition to the configurator.
I nominate @Wilder to be Porsche's new copywriter as your advice has been pretty bang on in the last 10 months I have been on this forum. If anyone from Porsche is on the forum, you can find Wilder somewhere in Mexico. 😂
The other dimension of RAS is safety and emergency maneuvers.
@SEA2ATX glad I could be of help in some way with my musings as I tried to navigate options for my car(s).
Originally Posted by tna3
Don't let the "ST didn't have it so...." crowd influence you. Here is the review of the S/T. Their take on the lack of RAS compared to GT3 is quite interesting. It comes down to preference but their take is that the steering is too slow in a car of the caliber w/o RAS.
There seems to be some confusion. I and many others decided against RAS long before the ST was announced. The launch of the ST and Andreas' early comments about purity and feel as a reason to exclude it CONFIRMED what the rest of us already knew. Also, I'm not sure what the steering ratio of the ST has to do with RAS on the T. Steering and suspension are different in GT cars so it only applies to the T conceptually. The reason the ST is getting solid reviews as a road car is because they've calibrated the suspension and steering as a road car and deleted RAS, closer to a non-RAS Carrera than a GT3. Driving a GT3 on the road for more than a couple of hours is no fun. I have two GT3s (997 but similar in terms of focus) and don't particularly enjoy driving them on the road.
I thought the decision to drop RAS from the S/T was more in the interest of achieving the lightest 911.
LIke @6sigma pointed out, early interviews with Andreas mention purity and feel as the reason. The weight argument was secondary and became the main focus later.
Agreed that it is totally down to preferences. I had RAS on my 991.2 Carrera S, skipped in 992 Carrera T on order. It felt unnatural especially in tight U-turns and I just could not get used to that feeling.
There has not been one person in this world that drove a 911 without RAS and complaint it didn’t feel good or wasn’t a real sportscar. You can never go wrong when you don’t have RAS and you would never have an idea you would be missing something. You could go wrong when you have it and don’t like it. When you compare them next to eachother you can have your own preference. But not a single person in the world would complaint about the feel of a 911 without RAS. Would the car feel to mechanical ?? Lol.
So my T was without RAS and without the steering plus. It felt very good.
Now I have the RAS and the steering plus. You will hear pretty soon from me.
How "classic" does the electric Power steering feel anyway? Real question since this will be my first sports car with an electric rack.
Two remarks: you have power steering and you have the power steering plus. For which version is your question? Because they differ insanely. Secondly when you change the wheel allignment you change the steering wheel feel. Most people don’t even look at the wheel allignment. Heck, some even forget testing with different bars. All this is directly related to the feel the electric steering gives: steer response. You need to consider all those points. When you do, and change them like I do, it goes from very good to almost perfection.
03-29-2024, 10:23 AM
