JesseRohr

Recent experience as the title suggests. My home track here is Barber for those that know it can be tricky. My other P cars with steel or PCCB have always held up. The 992 C2S doesn’t seem up to the task.

Checked all the obvious items that could be an issue including the fluid itself.

My questions are:

Has anyone else experienced the 992 brake fade after just a few laps?

Anyone else experimented with factory and aftermarket setups with any favorable results?

I’m at the point where I’m talking to dealers with PCCBs optioned to possibly trade I’m so annoyed. The car is downright dangerous as is.

smiles11

PCCB’s for life

voiceprint1

are you talking pedal to the floor type fade?

ipse dixit

I did about 6 sessions (about 20-30 minutes each) at my local track with a 991 C2S, and no brake fade with the OEM iron brakes.

Ambient air temp was about low 90s.

Just out of curiosity, and no offense intended, but did you bed-in your brakes? Only asking because it might be "green fade" -- or where newish brake pads release gases the first few time they reach high temps, which will create a hydroplane condition resulting in loss of friction.

Otherwise, this doesn't sound normal.

French Blue

This.

findtom

Yep, I have driving on track with OEM steel brakes and didn't have any issues with fading.

Chris3963

Have spent 4 days on track in a 992 S. No brake fade at all. What you describe is not normal.

rost12

Would try replacing brake fluid with a more track oriented one (higher boiling temp). The stock brakes should hold up to occasional track use.

russbert

I'm putting this on here for myself and others to remember to do this as it is a very important step in making the car as awesome as it can be. I usually do a combination of these two (2) suggestions.

Anytime you install new brake rotors, brake pads, or both, it's advantageous to bed in your new brakes. Bedding in your brakes is just an industry term to explain breaking in your new brakes. Bedding in your brakes helps transfer an even layer of brake pad material onto the brake rotor which assists in smoother brake operation and improved braking power. Having a uniform layer of pad material on the brake rotor is essential to minimizing brake squeal and vibration. For this procedure, you will need a good stretch of road and no traffic.

• Perform 3-4 medium stops from 45mph. Slightly more aggressive than normal braking. You don't need to come to a complete stop for each pass. This brings the brake rotors up to temperature so they are not exposed to sudden thermal shock.
• Make 8-10 aggressive stops from 60mph down to 15mph. For this set of semi-stops, you want to be firm and aggressive, but not to the point where ABS activates and the wheels lock up. It's important to note that you don't come to a complete stop but rather a semi-stop (~15mph). Accelerate back up to 60mph as soon as you slowed down to your semi-stop.
• The brake pads and brake rotors are extremely hot at this point and sitting on one point will imprint the pad material onto the surface unevenly. This can cause vibration and uneven braking.
• You may notice that your brakes will start fading, and sometimes smoke, after the 6th or 7th pass. This fade will stabilize and will gradually recess once your brakes have cooled down to normal operating temperatures. Drive carefully as your brakes may feel softer for the next few minutes.
• Try not to come to a complete stop and find a stretch of road where you can coast for 5-10 minutes, preferably without using your brakes.

After the break-in procedure, there may be a light blue tint on your brake rotors as well as a gray film deposit. The blue tint shows that your rotor has reached the appropriate temperature during the bedding process, and the gray film is some of the pad transfer material.

Some cars and trucks require two cycles of the bedding in procedure. This may be the case if you are using old brake rotors with new brake pads, or new brake rotors with old pads. This may also be the case if you don't think you fully heated up the brakes in the initial bedding procedure. In any case, it's required that you wait at least 10-15 minutes between each cycle as you don't want them to overlap.

A different variation of the first --

Here are the basic steps on how to bed your brakes:

1. The bedding-in process requires lots of accelerating and quick decelerating. Perform this process early in the morning and in a low-traffic area so that you avoid other vehicles.
2. From 60 MPH, apply the brakes gently a few times to bring them up to their usual operating temperature. This prepares your pads and rotors for the high heat generated in the next steps.
3. Make a near-stop from 60 to about 10 MPH. Press the brakes firmly, but not so hard that the ABS engages or the wheels lock. Once you've slowed down, immediately speed up to 60 MPH and apply the brakes again. Perform this cycle 8-10 times. Do not come to a complete stop! If you hold the brake pedal down while stopped you will leave excessive pad material on the rotors and ruin your braking performance.
4. Once you've performed that final near-stop, accelerate and drive a bit more, trying to use the brakes as little as possible so they can cool down. Again, do not come to a complete stop while the brakes are still hot. (Avoid traffic!)
5. If you are bedding in performance/racing brakes, you may have to perform extra near-stops from a higher speed.

Some more notes about bedding:

• Brand new brake pads and rotors will have very little braking power on their first few applications. Gently apply your brakes from low speeds a few times to establish some grip before you take your vehicle onto the highway or busy roads.
• Don't immediately bed your brakes if you have brand new rotors with phosphate, cadmium, or zinc plating. Do some normal driving to polish the plating off the rotors before bedding in your brakes.
• After you perform the break-in cycle you should see a light gray film and a slight blue tint on the rotor face. The gray film is material from the pads transferring onto the rotor face, and the blue tint indicates that the rotor has reached the proper break-in temperature. These are good signs that you have bedded your brakes properly.
• Some brakes, such as big brake kits or new pads installed onto old rotors, may require a second bed-in cycle. Let the brakes cool down fully before performing the second cycle.

kayjh

Is this from the owners manual?

ant922599

Had a good few sessions around the Porsche Experience Centre @ Silverstone, and experienced nothing like your reported total brake fade.

In fact I've not heard anyone complain about the brakes generally.

It won't be a manufacturing 'defect' or a systemically poor braking system; so it really does sound like either an isolated problem or having not bedded-in the brakes first.

russbert

Nope, it's a compilation from a few websites. They differ in some aspects but most have the same "basic" principles. I just thought these two were the most representative overall. I'm not sure what the manual says (if anything) since I'm still a few weeks away from receiving it. Perhaps someone else can chime in on that particular aspect.

kayjh

I dunno, I'm just inclined to follow what the break in directions are in the manual. That is what I did with my 2017 991.2 and the brakes worked fine. Most cars I have driven say to avoid hard stops for the first 200 miles to allow the brake pads to seat in. Lots of web sites out there giving "advice" but I wonder what Porsche says? As to the OP, it seems like something isn't right with his brakes as others have chimed in saying that their standard brakes perform fine on track days. He should take the car to a dealer to have them check out.

JesseRohr

To answer a couple questions asked:

To floor brake fade? - Not quite, but I'd imagine in a lap or two one could easily get there. This is non-responsive first 30-40% of pedal depression fade followed be a 50% reduction in normal (same car) stopping power the remaining pedal sort of fade. Hope that explains it with words best.
Brakes - yes bedded prior to arrival at track. Understand the question but I wouldn't have posted the thread with such an obvious answer. Brakes were bedded when I first got the car and in lower temperatures have performed well to date.
Weather conditions - It's Alabama in the summer. Low 90's, mid 80% humidity, rains every day between 4-4:15pm for 20 minutes (dry that day).
Car setup with factory equipment (has 1800 miles or so on it). No signs of moisture (fluid leak) anywhere associated with the brakes.

Discussing fluid swap options now with service manager, as I don't need anything that will immediately void the brake's warranty installed in an attempt to raise the boiling temp. The Porsche fluid "should" be adequate per their own specs.

9914s

But is not, change fluid and report back you will be surprised.