992 C2S - Terrifying on track brake fade
07-10-2020, 11:43 AM
#31
Burning Brakes
Update:
The service manager had me and their tech go attempt to replicate the on-track issue and were able to do so after about 30 mins of hard driving on a very windy nearby country road outside of town. He took some measurements of fluid temp, caliper temp, rotor temp, etc. Because my local dealership also services all of the company Porsche cars for Barber he had some interesting info. The first round of Porsche Experience cars for our location all came originally with steel brakes and were constantly in for brake related issues. They are now all equipped with PCCB and the first round of cars were shipped off somewhere or sold as demo cars. His opinion is that the front rubber portion of the brake lines is an inferior design to the 991 and upon excessive heat and abuse the rubber gets too soft and expands, creating a problematic issue with pedal feel and caliper compression (hence the dead pedal feel). This is his opinion and was going to research if the parts have been updated during production and if so, get my car some new brake lines. He stated I replicated a problem with another 992 C2S from a few months ago, all the brake lines were replaced and two new front calipers. Getting Porsche to allow it was the biggest hurdle at the time to get the car on the road again.
The service manager had me and their tech go attempt to replicate the on-track issue and were able to do so after about 30 mins of hard driving on a very windy nearby country road outside of town. He took some measurements of fluid temp, caliper temp, rotor temp, etc. Because my local dealership also services all of the company Porsche cars for Barber he had some interesting info. The first round of Porsche Experience cars for our location all came originally with steel brakes and were constantly in for brake related issues. They are now all equipped with PCCB and the first round of cars were shipped off somewhere or sold as demo cars. His opinion is that the front rubber portion of the brake lines is an inferior design to the 991 and upon excessive heat and abuse the rubber gets too soft and expands, creating a problematic issue with pedal feel and caliper compression (hence the dead pedal feel). This is his opinion and was going to research if the parts have been updated during production and if so, get my car some new brake lines. He stated I replicated a problem with another 992 C2S from a few months ago, all the brake lines were replaced and two new front calipers. Getting Porsche to allow it was the biggest hurdle at the time to get the car on the road again.
07-10-2020, 11:46 AM
#32
Burning Brakes
Update:
The service manager had me and their tech go attempt to replicate the on-track issue and were able to do so after about 30 mins of hard driving on a very windy nearby country road outside of town. He took some measurements of fluid temp, caliper temp, rotor temp, etc. Because my local dealership also services all of the company Porsche cars for Barber he had some interesting info. The first round of Porsche Experience cars for our location all came originally with steel brakes and were constantly in for brake related issues. They are now all equipped with PCCB and the first round of cars were shipped off somewhere or sold as demo cars. His opinion is that the front rubber portion of the brake lines is an inferior design to the 991 and upon excessive heat and abuse the rubber gets too soft and expands, creating a problematic issue with pedal feel and caliper compression (hence the dead pedal feel). This is his opinion and was going to research if the parts have been updated during production and if so, get my car some new brake lines. He stated I replicated a problem with another 992 C2S from a few months ago, all the brake lines were replaced and two new front calipers. Getting Porsche to allow it was the biggest hurdle at the time to get the car on the road again.
The service manager had me and their tech go attempt to replicate the on-track issue and were able to do so after about 30 mins of hard driving on a very windy nearby country road outside of town. He took some measurements of fluid temp, caliper temp, rotor temp, etc. Because my local dealership also services all of the company Porsche cars for Barber he had some interesting info. The first round of Porsche Experience cars for our location all came originally with steel brakes and were constantly in for brake related issues. They are now all equipped with PCCB and the first round of cars were shipped off somewhere or sold as demo cars. His opinion is that the front rubber portion of the brake lines is an inferior design to the 991 and upon excessive heat and abuse the rubber gets too soft and expands, creating a problematic issue with pedal feel and caliper compression (hence the dead pedal feel). This is his opinion and was going to research if the parts have been updated during production and if so, get my car some new brake lines. He stated I replicated a problem with another 992 C2S from a few months ago, all the brake lines were replaced and two new front calipers. Getting Porsche to allow it was the biggest hurdle at the time to get the car on the road again.
Looking forward to hearing more, and thanks again.
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Todd C (07-10-2020)
07-10-2020, 12:17 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
Not sure if these will fit our 992. This is a necessary upgrade for a track car.
https://shop.gmgracing.com/collectio...el-brake-lines
https://shop.gmgracing.com/collectio...el-brake-lines
07-10-2020, 12:56 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
Update:
The service manager had me and their tech go attempt to replicate the on-track issue and were able to do so after about 30 mins of hard driving on a very windy nearby country road outside of town. He took some measurements of fluid temp, caliper temp, rotor temp, etc. Because my local dealership also services all of the company Porsche cars for Barber he had some interesting info. The first round of Porsche Experience cars for our location all came originally with steel brakes and were constantly in for brake related issues. They are now all equipped with PCCB and the first round of cars were shipped off somewhere or sold as demo cars. His opinion is that the front rubber portion of the brake lines is an inferior design to the 991 and upon excessive heat and abuse the rubber gets too soft and expands, creating a problematic issue with pedal feel and caliper compression (hence the dead pedal feel). This is his opinion and was going to research if the parts have been updated during production and if so, get my car some new brake lines. He stated I replicated a problem with another 992 C2S from a few months ago, all the brake lines were replaced and two new front calipers. Getting Porsche to allow it was the biggest hurdle at the time to get the car on the road again.
The service manager had me and their tech go attempt to replicate the on-track issue and were able to do so after about 30 mins of hard driving on a very windy nearby country road outside of town. He took some measurements of fluid temp, caliper temp, rotor temp, etc. Because my local dealership also services all of the company Porsche cars for Barber he had some interesting info. The first round of Porsche Experience cars for our location all came originally with steel brakes and were constantly in for brake related issues. They are now all equipped with PCCB and the first round of cars were shipped off somewhere or sold as demo cars. His opinion is that the front rubber portion of the brake lines is an inferior design to the 991 and upon excessive heat and abuse the rubber gets too soft and expands, creating a problematic issue with pedal feel and caliper compression (hence the dead pedal feel). This is his opinion and was going to research if the parts have been updated during production and if so, get my car some new brake lines. He stated I replicated a problem with another 992 C2S from a few months ago, all the brake lines were replaced and two new front calipers. Getting Porsche to allow it was the biggest hurdle at the time to get the car on the road again.
07-10-2020, 12:58 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
I've boiled DOT4 fluid on track in a 110hp Miata, which does not hit anywhere near the same top speeds as something like a 911. Anecdotal evidence to be sure, but I'd not turn a wheel on track with anything less than 600 deg fluid in my Porsche.
07-10-2020, 02:34 PM
#36
Burning Brakes
If you get serious about tracking your car.....
https://www.essexparts.com/my-vehicl...0S/Iron%20disc
https://www.essexparts.com/my-vehicl...0S/Iron%20disc
07-10-2020, 06:52 PM
#37
Three Wheelin'
Update:
The service manager had me and their tech go attempt to replicate the on-track issue and were able to do so after about 30 mins of hard driving on a very windy nearby country road outside of town. He took some measurements of fluid temp, caliper temp, rotor temp, etc. Because my local dealership also services all of the company Porsche cars for Barber he had some interesting info. The first round of Porsche Experience cars for our location all came originally with steel brakes and were constantly in for brake related issues. They are now all equipped with PCCB and the first round of cars were shipped off somewhere or sold as demo cars. His opinion is that the front rubber portion of the brake lines is an inferior design to the 991 and upon excessive heat and abuse the rubber gets too soft and expands, creating a problematic issue with pedal feel and caliper compression (hence the dead pedal feel). This is his opinion and was going to research if the parts have been updated during production and if so, get my car some new brake lines. He stated I replicated a problem with another 992 C2S from a few months ago, all the brake lines were replaced and two new front calipers. Getting Porsche to allow it was the biggest hurdle at the time to get the car on the road again.
The service manager had me and their tech go attempt to replicate the on-track issue and were able to do so after about 30 mins of hard driving on a very windy nearby country road outside of town. He took some measurements of fluid temp, caliper temp, rotor temp, etc. Because my local dealership also services all of the company Porsche cars for Barber he had some interesting info. The first round of Porsche Experience cars for our location all came originally with steel brakes and were constantly in for brake related issues. They are now all equipped with PCCB and the first round of cars were shipped off somewhere or sold as demo cars. His opinion is that the front rubber portion of the brake lines is an inferior design to the 991 and upon excessive heat and abuse the rubber gets too soft and expands, creating a problematic issue with pedal feel and caliper compression (hence the dead pedal feel). This is his opinion and was going to research if the parts have been updated during production and if so, get my car some new brake lines. He stated I replicated a problem with another 992 C2S from a few months ago, all the brake lines were replaced and two new front calipers. Getting Porsche to allow it was the biggest hurdle at the time to get the car on the road again.
07-23-2020, 10:39 AM
#38
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Just an update:
First attempt after waiting for Porsche to approve everything was brake lines, fluid flush and pedal. Same issues over 90 degrees.
Second attempt was new brake hardware, pads up front, fluid flushed again. Same issues over 90 degrees.
Third attempt was new front loaded calipers, fluid flushed again, brake booster replaced. Same issues over 90 degrees.
Fourth attempt, new front rotors, new rear rotors and pads, new pedal assembly. Same issues over 90 degrees but drastically prolonged (took several hard drives to replicate).
Currently we're waiting to hear back if I can pay the delta in parts costs to update the car to PCCB.
First attempt after waiting for Porsche to approve everything was brake lines, fluid flush and pedal. Same issues over 90 degrees.
Second attempt was new brake hardware, pads up front, fluid flushed again. Same issues over 90 degrees.
Third attempt was new front loaded calipers, fluid flushed again, brake booster replaced. Same issues over 90 degrees.
Fourth attempt, new front rotors, new rear rotors and pads, new pedal assembly. Same issues over 90 degrees but drastically prolonged (took several hard drives to replicate).
Currently we're waiting to hear back if I can pay the delta in parts costs to update the car to PCCB.
07-23-2020, 10:59 AM
#39
Rennlist Member
^^^what fluid are you using?
07-23-2020, 11:05 AM
#41
Three Wheelin'
Just an update:
First attempt after waiting for Porsche to approve everything was brake lines, fluid flush and pedal. Same issues over 90 degrees.
Second attempt was new brake hardware, pads up front, fluid flushed again. Same issues over 90 degrees.
Third attempt was new front loaded calipers, fluid flushed again, brake booster replaced. Same issues over 90 degrees.
Fourth attempt, new front rotors, new rear rotors and pads, new pedal assembly. Same issues over 90 degrees but drastically prolonged (took several hard drives to replicate).
Currently we're waiting to hear back if I can pay the delta in parts costs to update the car to PCCB.
First attempt after waiting for Porsche to approve everything was brake lines, fluid flush and pedal. Same issues over 90 degrees.
Second attempt was new brake hardware, pads up front, fluid flushed again. Same issues over 90 degrees.
Third attempt was new front loaded calipers, fluid flushed again, brake booster replaced. Same issues over 90 degrees.
Fourth attempt, new front rotors, new rear rotors and pads, new pedal assembly. Same issues over 90 degrees but drastically prolonged (took several hard drives to replicate).
Currently we're waiting to hear back if I can pay the delta in parts costs to update the car to PCCB.
07-23-2020, 11:09 AM
#42
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Porsche fluid, after all, it's getting worked on at the dealership completely under warranty and I'm not out a penny so far. The moment I start changing the parts protocol I am on the hook for the costs associated with the non factory parts and any failure related to directly or indirectly. This car is my daily driver, not a toy. I'd like to keep it under warranty.
Also, before anyone starts quoting snippets of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, I've been in the automotive aftermarket parts manufacturing corridor my entire working adult life. I am extremely versed on it and using the factory fluid here is the best way to limit my liability on the braking system failures in my professional opinion.
Also, before anyone starts quoting snippets of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, I've been in the automotive aftermarket parts manufacturing corridor my entire working adult life. I am extremely versed on it and using the factory fluid here is the best way to limit my liability on the braking system failures in my professional opinion.
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dhirm5 (07-26-2020)
07-23-2020, 11:15 AM
#43
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
If I can't upgrade to the PCCB reasonably I'll just keep the car as is and likely start taking the Lambo to the track more.
The following 2 users liked this post by JesseRohr:
markchristenson (07-23-2020),
rouxeny (07-25-2020)
07-23-2020, 11:26 AM
#44
Burning Brakes
I understand why you don't want to use a non Porsche fluid but this sure sounds like a brake fluid issue. Staying with the same fluid, one option is to improve the brake cooling. Glad you are getting support from Porsche and hopefully this helps us all out as Porsche figures out what is happening.
07-23-2020, 11:33 AM
#45
Rennlist Member
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I have to say I feel for you with this one, it's very strange. Has anyone else responded with - or that you know of - the same issue / experience? I mean, the brakes on these cars have been well up to the job for years and over several model cycles.