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Dude. My point isn't that the Fidelity warranty is the best deal on planet earth, my point is that it makes zero sense for Porsche to be charging $3000 to a dealership for a warranty that usually covers less about 2.5 years of time when a customer pays FULL RETAIL to an insurance company for a significantly longer period warranty and it's $600 more. Porsche offers it as unlimited mileage because they know that most people drive their cars 5-15,000 miles a year, so the mileage number is irrelevant because you will run out of time long before you reach 100,000 miles. Someone buys a 39 month old lease return, 3 months after it's been returned at 36 months, CPO Macan at 36,000 miles, that car has 33 months of warranty on it. You would have to drive 2,000 miles a month, or 24,000 miles a year to reach 100,000 miles before you reach the 72 month mark. Most 911 lease returns are in the 15-25,000 range after 3 years. It's almost impossible to get there. I'm sure it happens, but it's gotta be like 1 out of 50,000 that someone runs out of mileage before months. My dad works in insurance, a warranty is insurance...and as he tells me, there has never been a major insurance company go out of business. I believe Fidelity is making a significant profit on their warranty, and I'd imagine Porsche makes a larger and more significant margin on their warranty. Again, the point isn't that Fidelity is a better product, it's that it makes no sense for Porsche to charge their dealers what is essentially "retail cost" for an aftermarket warranty.
Here is the problem with your post above.... you didn't read the other thread you posted fully. The Fidelity warranty runs concurrent to the existing warranty. That means it starts from the moment you buy the warranty so you're paying for Fidelity warranty while your car is still under Porsche warranty. The Porsche CPO only kicks in after the regular factory warranty ends. The price quoted in the thread you linked wasn't that great when you dug deeper into the numbers, as others on that thread did. The Fido warranty has a $250 deductible per ticket, its mileage is capped too. Also, the car the OP on the other thread was buying the warranty for had very low miles. If you wanted to buy that warranty for the car you describe in the scenario above on the Macan with 36k miles its going to cost a lot more than the price the OP quoted. As he and others explained the cost for the Fido warranty goes up significantly after the car accumulates 25k miles. Further, if you look at Fido's pricing on a 911 warranty, its significantly more than for a Macan warranty, in many cases double or triple the cost from Fido for a 911 warranty as compared to a macan warranty. Whereas, the cost for the Porsche CPO is virtually the same. If you're buying a used 911 and you're considering CPO vs buying an aftermarket warranty, in almost every case the CPO cost is going to be less than the aftermarket option. Additionally, you are guaranteed to get a car where the service is up to date and the tires and brakes are up to spec and never have a deductible if you need warranty work. I agree the odds are slim you'll need the unlimited mileage feature of the CPO but if you're buying a car as a daily driver and you rack up the miles, its nice to have. Although I don't know the numbers specifically, being a trader and a gambler, I would bet heavy its a lot more than 1 in 50,000 as you stated. I say that just knowing how many people I saw blow through the miles on their CPO purchases in the past, or dump their CPO for another as it approached the end of the warranty because if miles. Again, this is a case of you assuming your opinions are true without any regard for facts. As far as what Porsche charges its dealers, how do you know what its based on? How is it that you're sure its a "retail" number. Do you think a company like Porsche which is so uptight, and numbers oriented, simply picks an arbitrary number as the price for the warranty? Do you think they might do some actuarial work before the decided on a number? When the warranty comes from Porsche is not an "aftermarket" warranty. With the Fido warranty they're not going to specify Porsche parts they're going to go with what's cheapest. With the CPO you're guaranteed to get Porsche parts. As a dealer you would make a lot more money selling someone a car and a Fido warranty as opposed to the same car as a CPO. No matter how you slice the pie the CPO is almost always cheaper and better, and that goes for all the high line import manufacturers.
I'm not going to weigh in on the overall debate here (as fascinating as it is!) but the reason why people care about that is because it gives a peek into the information asymmetry of the trade in deal. The dealer has more information than the customer when the two parties are negotiating the trade in deal and the dealer will often imply or directly state a low number for the market value of the trade vehicle to support their offer. The customer ends up taking the deal and then sees the price that the dealer then posts the car for and it is considerably higher than the dealer stated or implied. This sours the customer because they feel they were taken advantage of.
I'm not saying this is how *I* feel - I am perfectly fine moving on after I strike a deal and I fully expect the dealer to mark up my trade a whole bunch when they go to market it but that's the source of the annoyance. No one likes being conned/lied to/fibbed to...
Rudy, I agree with you, and I appreciate your post........ I was posing those questions about why people care, rhetorically.... in order to make the point that the other posters comments are born out of his loathsome disdain for all things and people dealership related...despite any real facts.
Exactly. For example, the "wholesale" trade-in, auction number I was shown was $36,000. The sales person and used car sales manager told me that was the going wholesale rate, and they couldn't afford to pay more for my trade, because that's all it was worth. I had already received a quote from another dealer for $41,000. Ok, so they're lying to me. I said thanks very much, I think that's a very low offer, and we're so far apart I don't think it's productive to keep discussing. It took a week, but I got them to $42,000. Assuming they discounted their car 5%, they still made a tremendous profit on my trade. I tracked it not because I cared how much they sold the car for or what their profit was, but because I felt (and was!) lied to by a dealer saying they couldn't make a profit or were going to lose money by paying me any more than $36,000 for my trade.
And btw, I drive a 911 now, and I fully and completely expect to get the exact same treatment when I go to trade my current car in. I'll be offered $5-7000 below what I believe wholesale to be, based on extensive research and analysis, and will be told they can't possibly make money if they offer me any more. And then I'll have to spend hours of time and effort negotiating to get them to offer me CLOSER to what wholesale *actually* is, and they will still likely make a massive profit. That is why this process is annoying, because lying is an integral part of the process. They hope that the average customer who walks in has no idea what wholesale is, gets the first offer and takes it, even if that first offer is based on a lie. So for customers who are informed, it's a terrible experience to get them to admit that their offer is based on a lie, and get them to get within shouting distance of fair.
My point isn't that they shouldn't make a profit after they take my car, my point is that they based their offer on a lie, and then made a gigantic profit. I don't understand how someone can't see that makes you feel taken advantage of and lied to.
At what point does a negotiation turn into a lie or vice versa? Is it only a car dealer who can lie or when a customer says the other dealer is giving me way more for the car (even though the customer has not been to or spoken to the other dealer yet) a liar too? Or is he playing his hand and negotiating. Is he lying when he does that or is he just doing research and being prepared? Seriously... why bother doing all the research on the internet, just roll into carmax or one of those type places, and then bid up the number they give you. Then you did your homework and you're not a liar right?
When I sit down and play poker at the casino and I bluff, am I a lair or am I playing the game? What about if I am sitting on what I think is a good hand and I slow play it, trying to gather other info from players and reel in more money to the pot, am I a liar or am I gathering info and playing my hand? What about if I drop false tells while I am playing... does that make me a liar?
Ever play liars poker? We used to play all the time on the trading floor... wait don't answer that, on second thought I don't want to know. Lighten up bro, everyone at the dealership is not a liar and is not out to screw you. Next time I'm out in LA we need to go to a dealership together..... now that would be fun. With my experience and your paranoia, we'd have a blast, and I mean that in a positive way.
If you don't like what the dealer is offering on your trade-in, you can go out there and sell it yourself.
If you haven't done that with a car of consequential value, get ready for an education. Having done a bunch of private sale vehicle transactions over the past 30 years, you too will have a much greater respect for what dealers go through. SPOILER: The spectrum of sleazy buyers is a heck of an ethics rainbow.
I've dealt with the kids who don't have cash... the guy who shows up with cash less than what he actually offered and tries to pretend its okay, because its cash... the person who chips up a tiny deposit until his "paycheck lands next week" and dodges you for days until he gives you a personal check from his Mom... the guy who enthusiastically hands you a personal check and you break the news to him that there's no way that they're driving off until its proven real... the guy who hands you the "bank check" from a bank you've never heard of.... the guy who insists on getting account information from you to wire the money, but there's no way that you trust the guy with that info... the guy who talks a cash transaction, shows up on the day that he's supposed to buy it, then tells you that he's waiting on his bank... the guy who asks for a payment plan... the guy who gives you the cash for the vehicle, but then refuses to transfer the title at time of sale due to tax reasons... the guy who completes the transaction, then refuses to sign the title at the auto tags place, promising to come back and never does... Crap, there's so much of this nonsense that maybe I have PTSD from it. LOL. Many lessons learned. :P
When I sold my last car, I had multiple interested parties, but I just went with the guy who operated an actual business with employees. I figured that he was the best bet to be an adult through the whole thing and I was right. There aren't enough adults in this world.
At what point does a negotiation turn into a lie or vice versa? Is it only a car dealer who can lie or when a customer says the other dealer is giving me way more for the car (even though the customer has not been to or spoken to the other dealer yet) a liar too? Or is he playing his hand and negotiating. Is he lying when he does that or is he just doing research and being prepared? Seriously... why bother doing all the research on the internet, just roll into carmax or one of those type places, and then bid up the number they give you. Then you did your homework and you're not a liar right?
When I sit down and play poker at the casino and I bluff, am I a lair or am I playing the game? What about if I am sitting on what I think is a good hand and I slow play it, trying to gather other info from players and reel in more money to the pot, am I a liar or am I gathering info and playing my hand? What about if I drop false tells while I am playing... does that make me a liar?
Ever play liars poker? We used to play all the time on the trading floor... wait don't answer that, on second thought I don't want to know. Lighten up bro, everyone at the dealership is not a liar and is not out to screw you. Next time I'm out in LA we need to go to a dealership together..... now that would be fun. With my experience and your paranoia, we'd have a blast, and I mean that in a positive way.
I've said it a thousand times already in this thread, I don't think they're all liars trying to screw me. I have a healthy skepticism of dealerships because of past treatment, and how buying a car works, their incentive is to maximize their profit, my incentive is to maximize my discount or trade in value. Your position is that dealerships deserve the benefit of the doubt, because they don't make as much as I think they do. My position is that most dealerships use their information advantage to extract every cent of profit they can. That's fine, that's what they're supposed to do. But it makes zero sense as a consumer to not do exactly the same thing and be skeptical of what they're telling you, because what they're telling you is often, NOT ALWAYS, but often, not true. I mean, why not accept a marked up money factor on a lease, right?
As I also said, the lie is not that they offered me $36,000 for a car worth significantly more, the lie is what they say afterwards..."This is the going wholesale rate for this car" or "we can't afford to offer you more than this because we won't make money". That's not gathering information while playing poker, that's lying and saying you were actually playing blackjack, and then taking the whole pot when you throw down an Ace and a Queen as everyone stands there confused.
Not that this matters, but I mean, come on, are we really defending dealer details here? I've gone to a few dealerships and the quality of a detail there compared to actual high end detailers like Moe Mistry in Costa Mesa is night and day.
We've spent enough time on this, but since you questioned my honesty, I will do a dealer never does and show you the whole information. I don't care enough to hide the details, although the explanation for why I traded the car in and put so much down on the new car is a much longer story. Also including a photo of when I got the car. I'd love to go to a dealer with you, so you can understand why I feel the way that I do about them.
I've said it a thousand times already in this thread, I don't think they're all liars trying to screw me. I have a healthy skepticism of dealerships because of past treatment, and how buying a car works, their incentive is to maximize their profit, my incentive is to maximize my discount or trade in value. Your position is that dealerships deserve the benefit of the doubt, because they don't make as much as I think they do. My position is that most dealerships use their information advantage to extract every cent of profit they can. That's fine, that's what they're supposed to do. But it makes zero sense as a consumer to not do exactly the same thing and be skeptical of what they're telling you, because what they're telling you is often, NOT ALWAYS, but often, not true. I mean, why not accept a marked up money factor on a lease, right?
As I also said, the lie is not that they offered me $36,000 for a car worth significantly more, the lie is what they say afterwards..."This is the going wholesale rate for this car" or "we can't afford to offer you more than this because we won't make money". That's not gathering information while playing poker, that's lying and saying you were actually playing blackjack, and then taking the whole pot when you throw down an Ace and a Queen as everyone stands there confused.
Not that this matters, but I mean, come on, are we really defending dealer details here? I've gone to a few dealerships and the quality of a detail there compared to actual high end detailers like Moe Mistry in Costa Mesa is night and day.
We've spent enough time on this, but since you questioned my honesty, I will do a dealer never does and show you the whole information. I don't care enough to hide the details, although the explanation for why I traded the car in and put so much down on the new car is a much longer story. Also including a photo of when I got the car. I'd love to go to a dealer with you, so you can understand why I feel the way that I do about them.
I am confused. You bought a used 2018 911. Why is this in the 992 forum?
With that being said, I am missing something here, because it looks like they gave you $42k for your trade. That's more than $36k. It also appears that you were upside down in that car. I appreciate that frustration, but it looks like you came out okay and the dealer got you out of that situation.
That's a lot of money for a 718 Cayman with a REPORTED ACCIDENT. It's no wonder that it's been sitting on the lot for 132 days.
What are you talking about? When I traded the car in, there were no reported accidents, cause I was never in a reported accident and I was the only owner. The car was sold by Westlake in less than 10 days. I was purchasing a 911 Carrera T, and they gave me written documentation that the car I was purchasing was never in an accident, although I did find a receipt after the fact that they had paid for some reconditioning and repainting work on the car and never told me. I don't know if that falls under what Trader describes as playing poker and gathering information or not, or if it's egregious enough to count as deceitful, but he is the arbiter of that, not me. I don't know what reported accident you're talking about, unless it was in one after it was sold by Westlake.
I am confused. You bought a used 2018 911. Why is this in the 992 forum?
With that being said, I am missing something here, because it looks like they gave you $42k for your trade. That's more than $36k. It also appears that you were upside down in that car.
Because I was looking in the 992 forum at what discounts people are getting off of MSRP considering I have family members who might be in the market for a 992 soon. That's it.
What are you talking about? When I traded the car in, there were no reported accidents, cause I was never in a reported accident and I was the only owner. The car was sold by Westlake in less than 10 days. I was purchasing a 911 Carrera T, and they gave me written documentation that the car I was purchasing was never in an accident, although I did find a receipt after the fact that they had paid for some reconditioning and repainting work on the car and never told me. I don't know if that falls under what Trader describes as playing poker and gathering information or not, or if it's egregious enough to count as deceitful, but he is the arbiter of that, not me. I don't know what reported accident you're talking about, unless it was in one after it was sold by Westlake.
I am confused. You bought a used 2018 911. Why is this in the 992 forum?
With that being said, I am missing something here, because it looks like they gave you $42k for your trade. That's more than $36k. It also appears that you were upside down in that car. I appreciate that frustration, but it looks like you came out okay and the dealer got you out of that situation.
Dude...I've said it at least five times here...I was initially offered $36,000. I negotiated with them for a week to get $42,000. What I owed on the car is irrelevant to the discussion, which is that they told me the reason they were offering 36k was because that was the real wholesale value and they couldn't make any money on my trade if they gave me any more than 36k. Which was obviously not true. All I want out of dealers is to not lie and say you're not going to make money, don't lie and say this is what the true wholesale value is, cause we both know that's not true. Not hard.
Okay so you traded the car for $42k, and they have it listed for $53,898. If we apply your approved discount of 8% that makes a selling price of $49,600 ( I rounded up a little !).
So they send the car through the shop for a CPO check out, lets be cheap and call that $500. I don't know the miles so lets be cheap and say it does NOT need tires or brakes. Lets say the shop approves the car as a CPO and it only needs $750 bucks worth of stuff to be a CPO. Then lets add in the cost of the CPO and I will round up again, call it $3000. Ding the car for a detail and a tank of gas too, call that $150.
42000
500
3000
750
150
Total is $46,400 and the car sells for $49,600 where is the massive profit? Since you're the arbiter of what a "fair profit" is and is not, does $3200 qualify as fair or not?
As far as what they may or may not have offered you initially, I have no idea. Given your record of exaggerating the numbers to make your point, I am sticking to the facts, and leaving the speculation of what they may or may not have said out.
Do you really want to debate the quality of every single Porsche Dealers detail shop in order to defend your outrageous statement about being the worst in the world? Did anyone say that the dealer does a better job than a local specialized detail shop? NO... of course the dealer doesn't bill nearly what that detail shop would in their internal PDI either. Check the local Toyota dealers and see if maybe they're the worst in the world?
The problem is, you don't want the dealer to do any gamesmanship at all, but you want to reserve that right for yourself. If they do it, its a lie and you blanket every dealer in the country, when you do it, you're just armed with info. As I see it that's the argument in a nutshell. You get to decide what's fair, no one else does.
What info did you give us that you say a dealer never does? Are you implying that if you're looking at a CPO car they have in stock a dealer should tell you every dime they have in the car?
I am not the arbiter of what's a lie or not, that's why I keep deferring to you and asking all the time for you to define it more closely and less conveniently. You tell me, if a dealer does some recon on a used car, is it a lie if they don't tell you how much they paid for recon and what was done? How much did they really have to recon the car you traded?
Okay so you traded the car for $42k, and they have it listed for $53,898. If we apply your approved discount of 8% that makes a selling price of $49,600 ( I rounded up a little !).
So they send the car through the shop for a CPO check out, lets be cheap and call that $500. I don't know the miles so lets be cheap and say it does NOT need tires or brakes. Lets say the shop approves the car as a CPO and it only needs $750 bucks worth of stuff to be a CPO. Then lets add in the cost of the CPO and I will round up again, call it $3000. Ding the car for a detail and a tank of gas too, call that $150.
42000
500
3000
750
150
Total is $46,400 and the car sells for $49,600 where is the massive profit? Since you're the arbiter of what a "fair profit" is and is not, does $3200 qualify as fair or not?
As far as what they may or may not have offered you initially, I have no idea. Given your record of exaggerating the numbers to make your point, I am sticking to the facts, and leaving the speculation of what they may or may not have said out.
Do you really want to debate the quality of every single Porsche Dealers detail shop in order to defend your outrageous statement about being the worst in the world? Did anyone say that the dealer does a better job than a local specialized detail shop? NO... of course the dealer doesn't bill nearly what that detail shop would in their internal PDI either. Check the local Toyota dealers and see if maybe they're the worst in the world?
The problem is, you don't want the dealer to do any gamesmanship at all, but you want to reserve that right for yourself. If they do it, its a lie and you blanket every dealer in the country, when you do it, you're just armed with info. As I see it that's the argument in a nutshell. You get to decide what's fair, no one else does.
This is completely and utterly ridiculous. It's not speculation, what they offered me, it's fact. Maybe I can call my fiancee and put her on the phone with you as a witness to back it up, although I guess that's not enough, because only dealers and you tell the truth. This is just insulting at this point.
Dude. It was an exaggeration to make a point. Why are you so focused on the quality of Porsche dealer detailing? It's not the worst in the world, it's not close to the worst in the world. My point is that the quality of the detail you get a dealer is generally nowhere close to what a quality detail ACTUALLY is. This is why many PPF installers recommend you do not have the dealer do ANY work on a car before delivery, because they don't want to have to correct damage from a dealership detail. Come on.
What gamesmanship did I have? I had a quote from another dealer, that I told them about up front. That's not gamesmanship, that's the truth. They ask what you're looking for in trade, because that's a tool of negotiation, just like companies asking you to list your salary requirements ahead of time. You're negotiating against yourself. My gamesmanship is knowing what you say is public information about what Porsche margins are and negotiating based on that?
You're delusional if you think they discounted 8% on that car to sell it. I've never come anywhere close to 8% discount on a used Porsche. I got 0% discount from asking on the 911 I bought. My GUESS is they discounted it 5% to sell it, which is $2,694. That is $51,204. If they were in the car $46,400 as you estimate, that would be a profit of $4,804 which is a profit of 10.35%. According to you they make "bupkiss" on most cars they sell, so yes, that's a massive profit...right?
And here's the receipt of the bodywork, for completeness. But whatever, I'm the dishonest one here. Ridiculous.
If you don't like what the dealer is offering on your trade-in, you can go out there and sell it yourself.
If you haven't done that with a car of consequential value, get ready for an education. Having done a bunch of private sale vehicle transactions over the past 30 years, you too will have a much greater respect for what dealers go through. SPOILER: The spectrum of sleazy buyers is a heck of an ethics rainbow.
I've dealt with the kids who don't have cash... the guy who shows up with cash less than what he actually offered and tries to pretend its okay, because its cash... the person who chips up a tiny deposit until his "paycheck lands next week" and dodges you for days until he gives you a personal check from his Mom... the guy who enthusiastically hands you a personal check and you break the news to him that there's no way that they're driving off until its proven real... the guy who hands you the "bank check" from a bank you've never heard of.... the guy who insists on getting account information from you to wire the money, but there's no way that you trust the guy with that info... the guy who talks a cash transaction, shows up on the day that he's supposed to buy it, then tells you that he's waiting on his bank... the guy who asks for a payment plan... the guy who gives you the cash for the vehicle, but then refuses to transfer the title at time of sale due to tax reasons... the guy who completes the transaction, then refuses to sign the title at the auto tags place, promising to come back and never does... Crap, there's so much of this nonsense that maybe I have PTSD from it. LOL. Many lessons learned. :P
When I sold my last car, I had multiple interested parties, but I just went with the guy who operated an actual business with employees. I figured that he was the best bet to be an adult through the whole thing and I was right. There aren't enough adults in this world.
My experiences selling performance cars over the past 30 years - and the couple of Porsches I've sold recently - don't mirror yours. With all the internet-based tools at a seller's disposal, it's easy to reach a targeted market, and clear, firm communications throughout any engagement with a prospective buyer prevent any of the shenanigans you describe. I don't EVER do phone calls; email and text fully documents every "discussion" and when necessary I quickly go from a gentle PFO to a pointed and unequivocal FO. When doing the deal on our ED 992 C4, we had a quasi-Unicorn, one owner, high-spec '12 Cayman S. I knew exactly what is was worth, and the dealer came in at precisely $10k lower than I knew it would sell for. Said "thanks, but I'll sell privately," which took less than two weeks to a buyer in the U.S. (car was in Canada). On a subsequent dealer visit, talking with the new car Sales Manager I mentioned the Cayman was sold, and how easy it was. "Yeah," he responded. "I know you're never gonna give me the 15 points I need on a trade, and I mean that in the nicest possible way." I'm fully aware that by taking the trade out of the 992 negotiations, I lost a wee bit of leverage, but in this case I went into that process with an extra $10k in my jeans. He wasn't trying to rip me off; he came in with his position (which I understood) and I countered with mine (which he also understood). Two adults, acting like same.
Buying and selling cars isn't rocket science, and like most things in life a little research, a bit of give-and-take, clear communications and stand-up behaviour go a long way. Act like a grinder or a d**k, and one should reasonably expect some instant karma.
“This is completely and utterly ridiculous. It's not speculation, what they offered me, it's fact. Maybe I can call my fiancée and put her on the phone with you as a witness to back it up, although I guess that's not enough, because only dealers and you tell the truth. This is just insulting at this point”
Me: I don’t think your fiancée would be a good witness, we don’t even know if she was there or paying attention. I am not the one who has endlessly ridiculed dealers and endlessly complained about them while accusing them of lying about everything. I said very clearly people lie, its human nature. I just don’t agree with you in that its constant, encouraged, and part of the way every dealer deliberately does business.
You: Dude. It was an exaggeration to make a point. Why are you so focused on the quality of Porsche dealer detailing? It's not the worst in the world, it's not close to the worst in the world. My point is that the quality of the detail you get a dealer is generally nowhere close to what a quality detail ACTUALLY is. This is why many PPF installers recommend you do not have the dealer do ANY work on a car before delivery, because they don't want to have to correct damage from a dealership detail. Come on.
Me:
I am focused not on the quality of the work but on your responses. Your responses demonstrate how out of touch you are with reality and demonstrate your inclination to exaggerate your stories in order to try and drive your narrative about dealers. You appeared pretty appalled that a Porsche dealer would charge for a detail. You were very sure they’re the worst in the world. You’re right, when the shop charges for a detail as part of a PPI, it’s probably not as good a detail job as the one you can pay 2, 3 or 4 times as much for at a detail shop. Have you ever considered that the PPF installers don’t want the dealer to touch your new car because they want to sell you the same services the dealer does? That’s not possible right, because the dealer is out to screw you and the PPF guy is a straight shooter.
You: What gamesmanship did I have? I had a quote from another dealer, that I told them about up front. That's not gamesmanship, that's the truth. They ask what you're looking for in trade, because that's a tool of negotiation, just like companies asking you to list your salary requirements ahead of time. You're negotiating against yourself. My gamesmanship is knowing what you say is public information about what Porsche margins are and negotiating based on that?
Me: You don’t want to offer an opening price on your car by stating your expectation, you see that as negotiating against yourself. But, since the dealer must go first and he tosses out a low-ball number, then he’s a liar, you were just being smart and well informed, and knowing what to say.
You: You're delusional if you think they discounted 8% on that car to sell it. I've never come anywhere close to 8% discount on a used Porsche. I got 0% discount from asking on the 911 I bought. My GUESS is they discounted it 5% to sell it, which is $2,694. That is $51,204. If they were in the car $46,400 as you estimate, that would be a profit of $4,804 which is a profit of 10.35%. According to you they make "bupkiss" on most cars they sell, so yes, that's a massive profit...right?
Me: Now I am delusional…. 8% was what you are sure is “fair value” for a discount on a new car, so I just took a que from you. Why wouldn’t they do a deal at 8% off on a used 718. You spent three comments on this thread bitching about how ****ty the resale value is on a 718, what poor sellers they are, and the massive discounts dealers are offering to move a new one. Why in the world would a dealer sit on a CPO one that is going to compete with a new one that they can’t sell? If I was still on the trading floor, I’d be slapping bids to get out of every 718 contract I had, otherwise cash is tied up in cars you told me I can’t sell for a profit. 8% off gets me out of a CPO one for a profit. Boom SOLD. Just for the record, I believe I used the term “bupkiss” in regard to the net dollar amount a dealer makes on selling a new Macan. I also mentioned that used cars are a place where the dealer should make money. If you’re going to mock my words, please get the references correct.
As far as the bumpers go on your recent purchase, call a lawyer right away, you have a slam dunk case. Here you have guarantee in writing from the dealer that the car has not been in an accident and on the other hand you have cold dead proof that some scratches or god forbid a ding in both front and rear bumpers were fixed. That dealer is a scum bag liar for sure, hell, they are all right? You need to go after them for hundreds of dollars. Did you notice the date on the bumper work? Maybe this car was damaged in transit from the port or on the ship? You could go after PCNA and Porsche GmBH too. Better call Saul.
I agree with you, this is getting ridiculous, its the same thing over and over.... You're sure your opinions are FACT across the board. You exaggerate stories in order to drive your narrative that everything about a dealership is designed to swindle you out of money and its all lies and deception. Nothing else matters, even the PPF guys are better than the dealers. You reject the notion that screwing everyone is a bad business model and you wont remain in business very long in this day and age if you screw every client on absolutely everything.
12-19-2019, 05:01 PM
