911ST
12-19-2023, 01:50 AM
#4696
GT3 player par excellence
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Lifetime Rennlist
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it's not about what parts made the car
it's the gestalt
sometimes it just works
not saying S/T is it. but just in general
it's the gestalt
sometimes it just works
not saying S/T is it. but just in general
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12-19-2023, 05:43 AM
#4697
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Nimble is definitely not how I would describe the 812 (I had 2). Still an amazing car though. For my use case it was great. I just gravitated back to Porsche for a variety of reasons- still phenomenal sound, driving experience, fit and finish, etc…
I have not driven one but people rave about the 296. Nimble, good sounds, upgraded Ferrari interior. That and pista would be where I would focus.
I have not driven one but people rave about the 296. Nimble, good sounds, upgraded Ferrari interior. That and pista would be where I would focus.
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12-19-2023, 12:45 PM
#4698
Don't understand this obsession with people labelling cars as parts specials. Pre-A 356 was a parts special as well. I mean, how dare Porsche use the VW crankcase.
12-19-2023, 12:52 PM
#4699
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
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What parts did Porsche take? The doors? The Fenders, the revised suspension, the revised gear ratios, the trick SMF and bespoke clutch? The aero gurney flap, the light weight carpet? The revised ECU? The lighter carpet.
Oh and let’s not forget that it’s about 30lbs heavier than the 911R.
I guess I’ll just have to kick myself every time I drive the ST, when I could have just bought all the parts and installed it on my GT3
Oh and let’s not forget that it’s about 30lbs heavier than the 911R.
I guess I’ll just have to kick myself every time I drive the ST, when I could have just bought all the parts and installed it on my GT3
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12-19-2023, 01:14 PM
#4700
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The 2012 Tesla Model S.
And we all know how well that went ...
12-19-2023, 02:20 PM
#4701
Rennlist Member
Not a parts bin car...
Porsche had the S/T planned all along for the 992 chassis and every 992 before it was a test mule.
Porsche had the S/T planned all along for the 992 chassis and every 992 before it was a test mule.
Last edited by dave2020; 12-19-2023 at 02:28 PM.
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Greek Car Geek (12-20-2023)
12-19-2023, 02:46 PM
#4702
Imagine having such a strong opinion about a car you've never even seen in person, let alone driven, then claim to be a car enthusiast LOL. Amazing
Must be the altitude on those roofs
Must be the altitude on those roofs
The following 5 users liked this post by PTS:
BlazinPond (12-20-2023),
BrntRubber (12-19-2023),
Greek Car Geek (12-20-2023),
TOporschefan (12-19-2023),
Volcano (12-19-2023)
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InfamousS/T (12-19-2023)
12-19-2023, 04:56 PM
#4704
Rennlist Member
Don't get me wrong...I would buy an S/T in a heartbeat (and have no interest at all in the 296). It's exactly what I want in a 911, and I've had 911s my whole life. But I am able to take a step back and see the bigger picture; I understand that is difficult for most here.
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BrntRubber (12-19-2023)
12-19-2023, 05:12 PM
#4705
When you consider a $335k Heritage S/T has an MSRP $215k more than the $120k Carrera on which all 992s are primarily based, it's egregious. Especially when, say, a $335k 296 is a bespoke and far more complex vehicle with much more ultimate performance and cache.
Don't get me wrong...I would buy an S/T in a heartbeat (and have no interest at all in the 296). It's exactly what I want in a 911, and I've had 911s my whole life. But I am able to take a step back and see the bigger picture; I understand that is difficult for most here.
Don't get me wrong...I would buy an S/T in a heartbeat (and have no interest at all in the 296). It's exactly what I want in a 911, and I've had 911s my whole life. But I am able to take a step back and see the bigger picture; I understand that is difficult for most here.
12-19-2023, 05:19 PM
#4706
When you consider a $335k Heritage S/T has an MSRP $215k more than the $120k Carrera on which all 992s are primarily based, it's egregious. Especially when, say, a $335k 296 is a bespoke and far more complex vehicle with much more ultimate performance and cache.
Don't get me wrong...I would buy an S/T in a heartbeat (and have no interest at all in the 296). It's exactly what I want in a 911, and I've had 911s my whole life. But I am able to take a step back and see the bigger picture; I understand that is difficult for most here.
Don't get me wrong...I would buy an S/T in a heartbeat (and have no interest at all in the 296). It's exactly what I want in a 911, and I've had 911s my whole life. But I am able to take a step back and see the bigger picture; I understand that is difficult for most here.
So is it also egregious that while a base Audi Q8 is $70k a Cayenne Turbo GT is $198k? That's a 182% price increase. The Turbo GT isn't a limited run car either.
Base 911 is $118k and base S/T is $291k. 146% price increase. Using that logic is the S/T now a bargain? Especially when you consider future value (which I couldn't care less about).
I have no interest in paying ~$150k for a well spec'd base 911 but have all the interest in the world paying ~$330k for a well spec'd S/T. I don't think the S/T price is egregious at all. I think it's the first properly priced MSRP GT car Porsche has put out in quite some time
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12-19-2023, 07:03 PM
#4707
Rennlist Member
^ Like I said, not everyone can step back and see the bigger picture. I said nothing about worth or future value. I said nothing derogatory about the S/T; I think it's perfection. I get that most people spending $300-400k on a 911 will consider the C2 a POS.
I am talking about cost to develop and manufacture in the context of being a 'parts bin' car, and why there is criticism. Take any common part from a Carrera...body in white, wiring loom, PASM dampers, etc...did the equivalent part number(s) on the S/T cost Porsche 150% more to develop and manufacture? No. Did the drivetrain cost 50% more to develop and manufacture than the GT3's? No. Again, compare it to a 296 that has the same MSRP, and what it must have cost to develop and manufacture.
I am talking about cost to develop and manufacture in the context of being a 'parts bin' car, and why there is criticism. Take any common part from a Carrera...body in white, wiring loom, PASM dampers, etc...did the equivalent part number(s) on the S/T cost Porsche 150% more to develop and manufacture? No. Did the drivetrain cost 50% more to develop and manufacture than the GT3's? No. Again, compare it to a 296 that has the same MSRP, and what it must have cost to develop and manufacture.
12-19-2023, 10:13 PM
#4708
^ Like I said, not everyone can step back and see the bigger picture. I said nothing about worth or future value. I said nothing derogatory about the S/T; I think it's perfection. I get that most people spending $300-400k on a 911 will consider the C2 a POS.
I am talking about cost to develop and manufacture in the context of being a 'parts bin' car, and why there is criticism. Take any common part from a Carrera...body in white, wiring loom, PASM dampers, etc...did the equivalent part number(s) on the S/T cost Porsche 150% more to develop and manufacture? No. Did the drivetrain cost 50% more to develop and manufacture than the GT3's? No. Again, compare it to a 296 that has the same MSRP, and what it must have cost to develop and manufacture.
I am talking about cost to develop and manufacture in the context of being a 'parts bin' car, and why there is criticism. Take any common part from a Carrera...body in white, wiring loom, PASM dampers, etc...did the equivalent part number(s) on the S/T cost Porsche 150% more to develop and manufacture? No. Did the drivetrain cost 50% more to develop and manufacture than the GT3's? No. Again, compare it to a 296 that has the same MSRP, and what it must have cost to develop and manufacture.
12-19-2023, 10:17 PM
#4709
Race Car
If you read the 992 reveal threads from 2018, EVERYONE hated the 992 design.
12-19-2023, 10:38 PM
#4710
^ Like I said, not everyone can step back and see the bigger picture. I said nothing about worth or future value. I said nothing derogatory about the S/T; I think it's perfection. I get that most people spending $300-400k on a 911 will consider the C2 a POS.
I am talking about cost to develop and manufacture in the context of being a 'parts bin' car, and why there is criticism. Take any common part from a Carrera...body in white, wiring loom, PASM dampers, etc...did the equivalent part number(s) on the S/T cost Porsche 150% more to develop and manufacture? No. Did the drivetrain cost 50% more to develop and manufacture than the GT3's? No. Again, compare it to a 296 that has the same MSRP, and what it must have cost to develop and manufacture.
I am talking about cost to develop and manufacture in the context of being a 'parts bin' car, and why there is criticism. Take any common part from a Carrera...body in white, wiring loom, PASM dampers, etc...did the equivalent part number(s) on the S/T cost Porsche 150% more to develop and manufacture? No. Did the drivetrain cost 50% more to develop and manufacture than the GT3's? No. Again, compare it to a 296 that has the same MSRP, and what it must have cost to develop and manufacture.
And as stated above, R&D costs do not have a direct line to vehicle MSRP. Of course there is some correlation. No one here has any idea how much time and money it took to develop the S/T. I'm willing to bet it was quite a bit. Just because some changes are subtle doesn't mean they don't cost considerable time and money.
Last edited by PTS; 12-19-2023 at 10:39 PM.