xstnte

this is not entirely correct. prototype cars without production VIN are imported on a NHTSA/DOT bond for temporary use. Prototype/press cars are regularly crushed to satisfy the bond requirements.

Justaroofer

Or in this case....

Returned to Autozone to be put back on parts shelf.

Manifold

I haven’t been following closely. Am I understanding correctly that the only way to get an ST is to lease it?

Justaroofer

Mandatory lease for 12months @ 5k miles allowed. Must be returned to the dealer with minimum 83% residual. Then the market correction factor added at time of sell. No early buy out.

The reality is Porsche is just focusing on putting the bubble money in their accts and not flippers while keeping the bubble inflated.

We're entering the Era of the $300k minimum 911s.... because they're that damn good and Porache knows it.

The Porsche accountants have allowed these cars to be a mid level "exotic" for quite some time while remaining true to their base. Theyre now cross competing against McLaren and Ferrari essentially with some.of the MSRPs that have been eclipsed.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, Porsche is restructuring it's business model and we're just watching the tides change.

My dealer has already guaranteed me a 2RS when it becomes available and I'm just keeping my fingers crossed there's no lease requirements on them, yet expecting it to easily be a $400k plus MSRP.

Maverick787

Not an ST will be interesting to see where this lands.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...-911-gt3-rs-2/

Manifold

I like 911s, I have several. But I don’t think they’re generally going to sell well at $300k minimum, and Porsche knows it. Not enough people with enough money who want them enough. You are not a representative buyer.

Have you owned McLarens, Ferraris, other exotics? Subjectively, I don’t think Porsche can compete with McLaren at equal dollars.

agfox

SC, S/T, RS, Dakar, they aren't having any problems selling 300k cars yet. McLaren have 25 dealerships in the US and sell like 2000 cars globally a year. Some of the cars are great, but you can drop off a Porsche for service in like 200 locations. The market coverage and volumes are not comparable.

white6speed

What does the “market correction fee” encompass at the end of the lease.

Manifold

The 'special' 911s are selling now at those prices, in the volumes being produced. Demand may fall in the future, and if they produced twice as many of those cars, they may not be able to sell them all at those prices even today.

But the claim was that 911s are going to be $300k minimum. I think the take rate for a base Carrera at $300k would be approximately zero.

Porsche isn't dumb. They're not going to leave a lot of money on the table. If they thought they could raise the MSRPs way up and still sell as many cars, and not have to drop the MSRPs in the future when the economy slows, they would have done it.

Quikag

Good discussion. I can't roll like many of y'all, went into my short term Porsche ownership so far with a new 981 GT4 back in 2015ish, then a new 991.2 GT3, then a 992 GTS when I couldn't get a 992 GT3 from the dealer. Sold the GTS as it was a great car, but didn't have the emotion of the GT3, so I just wasn't feeling it.

Now, I'm Porsche-less again but actively looking at 992 GT3's and 992 Turbo S, but leaning towards GT3 for the same reason I dumped the GTS. But, here's my big paradigm shift as of yesterday. I seriously looked at a basically new Huracan Technica for a visceral fun car. I figured if I may spend $250-280k for a freaking lightly used GT3, why not going to low to mid 300's and get a "real" exotic ripping V10 car that "looks" like a "racecar" (especially to my 2 and 5 year old boys).

I really miss the days of my $162k brand new 991.2 GT3. Prices have gotten insane. The only thing that keeps bringing me back to Porsche to date is the incredible engineering, the feel of the drive, the sounds, and the track durability as I can degrade the feel of a car over a hard track weekend. The Porsche is the only car I've owned where it feels nearly as fresh at the end of a hard track weekend as it did before.

Manifold

To properly compare the Turbo S and GT3, I think the Turbo S needs to be on Cup 2 and needs front camber of about 1.5 degrees (from the factory, it's generally 1.0 degree or less, mine was 0.4 degrees on one side).

If you haven't tried a McLaren, I recommend doing so. I got my 570 GT in mint condition at 8,300 miles for $160k and, subjectively, the experience of driving it is well beyond any of my Porsches. Even if I wind up spending tens of thousands of dollars fixing things, the car is still a bargain, and with 1k miles on it so far I've had no issues at all. The power feels comparable to a Turbo S, it's light, nimble and playful mid-engine handling, great hydraulic steering feel, sounds great, low seating position with great visibility, and better ride quality than any of the Porsches. One can tell that it's derived from a race car that was designed from the ground up, rather than being a descendant of the VW Bug which has been gradually engineered into being an excellent sports car. And the guys with lots of McLaren experience tell us that the 'higher' McLarens are even better than the 570 ...

I too am starting to look at Lambo.

agfox

They will just stop making as many base Carrera's. The end result is the same. Production slots are valuable, you leave money on the table when you build a base vs a GT car, a Turbo S, or a special. I'd wager base Carrera production numbers as a percentage have been trending down over the last few years. If anyone has that info it'd be interesting.

MattDFW

I recently dove into Lamborghini and specced my STO. Just arrived. It's very impressive. The V10 is another experience with the valves pinned open. Car feels very durable, no rattles, quick shifts, excellent sterring and braking. My 992 3RS hasn't seen many miles lately as my 4RS and STO have stolen my time driving. I'm a huge Porsche fan and even more so after Rennsport last weekend but expanding to other brands is lot of fun. If someone is paying ADM I would recommend looking around. Mclaren is the only exotic brand I've yet to experience. I do thing the 675 will eventually make it's way to my garage.

Justaroofer

I hate to pop your cherry on this fact...I'm exactly what Porsche wants. Someone who's young, has liquid income, drives the cars, and only wants highline cars. Thats what they car about is moving units it low volume to those who seek them regardless of price.

The old mans Porsche world is dead. Sorry just facts.

Having done over a million in transactions with my dealer in just a year and having no need for TRT yet, and having hit my midlife crisis in my early 20's.... my dealer knows that I'll keep giving them business as long as the brand keeps pushing the envelope with cars reasonably priced and not something you see all the time.

The STO, 458s, 488s, F8s, Huracans, are a dime a dozen, 911s.... not so much. Thats why I like them. Not because they are daily cars that can be tracked.

Quikag

Agreed, if I did a Turbo S, it would definitely have Cup 2's and an alignment at a minimum. I like McLaren a lot, but have been scared away with overall reliability and electrical issues. I've heard too many stories. They do drive incredibly well and are very unique in how they feel. Also, look great too! I think the Lambo might hit a sweet spot in basic reliability, good looks, great sounds, etc.