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Anthony comes from the Covid salesman era where everyone threw money no questions asked and begged for cars, that time is long gone. Welcome back to reality,
I still remember mclaren dealers asking markups for Arturas, now? 5% discount without even asking. Blows my mind people paid over sticker for Huracans. From 2015-2020 you’d get 1-3% discount on ORDERED cars. The best though? R8 buyers paying markups for a car that has historically gone down in value by 25-30% after a year.
The car world is balancing finally.
anthony comes from pre covid phase when I was discounting new 718 GT4 and turbo S 5% off msrp.
a few months later Covid happened..and we shut down the dealer for 3 full months. No one went to work and the dealer was a ghost town.
those days are coming back my friend. Patience is all you need. EV market is in complete free fall, all those hot ICE pickup trucks are selling below MSRP, it’s just a question of timeline.
Lambo says their order book is full through 2026…that’s just a deposit, let’s see how many follow through when they realize they can’t be flipped the next day for 50k profit. Same with high end watches - see Watches of Switzerland latest earnings.
We’re not at 2019 levels yet, but getting there.
2019 is a good comparison, prices were normal to a degree. But the people waiting for 2020 prices when the car market rapidly fell are going to continue to wait. I picked up a 991.2 GT3RS for 165K clean carfax 13k miles back then, same car with 20k miles 2 years later sold for 207K. Prices went ***** to the wall 2021 through mid 2023. 2020 was an anomaly given the uncertainty of what was going on, prices are not hitting those lows and this is what everyone is anticipating for; obviously this is just my opinion.
Even with a recession in full force, people know what to expect, which was the opposite for 2020, once printing starts, prices will inflate all over again, so keep waiting for that 997.2 GT3 you’ve been eyeing for 4 years to be sub 115k again
Another thing is, I do agree the EV market is free falling, I was offered a 2024 Taycan GTS Sport Truismo for 26k off its MSRP, could possibly get more off too. Last year GTS or Turbo Taycans were going for MSRP, year before that people were paying large ADMs. The current EV tech will be outdated soon and many Taycans will be approaching their 10 year battery warranty limit as well. NO ONE knows what your EV now ill be worth in the future, whereas for ICE cars we’ve always been able to somewhat provide an educated guess on future prices, for the EV market it’s just simply not that easy. Taycan turbo’s see 45-55% depreciation within 2 years, there’s no way this will get any better as new tech emerges at a cheaper price from Porsche itself, unless Porsche makes EV batteries more affordable for those who are out of their 10 year warranty, in example.
P ICE cars who’s tech is outdated are usually prized possessions and therefore appreciate, an EV who’s tech is outdated will be looked down upon and not to mention a liability both financially and safety wise.
Let me not even get started on the luxury watch market..glad I sold most of my watches I wasn’t emotionally attached to long ago at what my interpretation of what the peak of the market was.
yup, the Taycan depreciation is insane. Musk started it (Tesla Plaid going from $130k msrp at peak covid to $80k now) and every EV got sucked down with it. I just leased an EQS top of line 580 for more than 30k off MSRP at a sub 1.5% effective interest rate.
Dealers can’t give away Taycans - minimum 20k off is the start. Battery tech will be obsolete in 3 years, so you have to lease.
same reason I’d never buy a hybrid 911 first gen. Those things will depreciate like EVs, not ICE 911.
I’m never selling my 993, but I just want that Dakar :-)
Originally Posted by mrjbb7
2019 is a good comparison, prices were normal to a degree. But the people waiting for 2020 prices when the car market rapidly fell are going to continue to wait. I picked up a 991.2 GT3RS for 165K clean carfax 13k miles back then, same car with 20k miles 2 years later sold for 207K. Prices went ***** to the wall 2021 through mid 2023. 2020 was an anomaly given the uncertainty of what was going on, prices are not hitting those lows and this is what everyone is anticipating for; obviously this is just my opinion.
Even with a recession in full force, people know what to expect, which was the opposite for 2020, once printing starts, prices will inflate all over again, so keep waiting for that 997.2 GT3 you’ve been eyeing for 4 years to be sub 115k again
Another thing is, I do agree the EV market is free falling, I was offered a 2024 Taycan GTS Sport Truism for 26k off its MSRP, could possibly get more off. Last year GTS or Turbo Taycans were going for MSRP, year before that people were paying large ADMs. The current EV tech will be outdated soon and many taycans will be approaching their 10 year battery warranty limit soon. NO ONE knows what your EV now ill be worth in the future, whereas for ICE cars we’ve always been able to somewhat guess or predetermine prices, for the EV market it’s just simply not possible.
ICE cars who’s tech is outdated are prized possessions, an EV who’s tech is outdated will be looked down upon and not to mention a liability, safety, financially and in general.
Let me not even get started on the luxury watch market..glad I sold most of my watches I wasn’t emotionally attached to long ago at what my interpretation of what the peak of the market was. I used to be a “coveted” luxury watch dealer for more than a decade in a half when it wasn’t “cool” to be one after COVID lol
yup, the Taycan depreciation is insane. Musk started it (Tesla Plaid going from $130k msrp at peak covid to $80k now) and every EV got sucked down with it. I just leased an EQS top of line 580 for more than 30k off MSRP at a sub 1.5% effective interest rate.
Dealers can’t give away Taycans - minimum 20k off is the start. Battery tech will be obsolete in 3 years, so you have to lease.
same reason I’d never buy a hybrid 911 first gen. Those things will depreciate like EVs, not ICE 911.
I’m never selling my 993, but I just want that Dakar :-)
100% leasing an EV would be the way to go, get rid of it after 36 to 39 months and wash your hands of it. THE problem currently is Porsche isn’t stupid and they’ve set their residuals really low and the MF high, ranging between 11-13% in interest rate terms. Meaning it’s more beneficial to buy even at the current higher interest rates, but at that point I just wouldn’t buy in general.
They’re making their leases less attractive to push people to buy, and not get stuck with a bunch of their own EVs at end of lease-term (of course the current market and high interest rates affect this as well).
I probably would’ve considered a GTS Sport Turismo if the lease was reasonable lol
Those numbers you just got on the EQS are really good, congratulations!!
Car companies wouldn't be producing such a flawed product if it weren't for government mandates, cafe restrictions and anything else that I don't care to know about. The depreciation on these battery cars is payment for misguided virtue signaling imo. My contractor asked me if I wanted some charging apparatus in my garages when my house was being built. I laughed and declined. There's a place for battery cars and scooters; primarily commuting and around town, parking at Target to shop for transgender children clothing, vegan restaurants, charging in front of woke city halls etc.
Car companies wouldn't be producing such a flawed product if it weren't for government mandates, cafe restrictions and anything else that I don't care to know about. The depreciation on these battery cars is payment for misguided virtue signaling imo. My contractor asked me if I wanted some charging apparatus in my garages when my house was being built. I laughed and declined. There's a place for battery cars and scooters; primarily commuting and around town, parking at Target to shop for transgender children clothing, vegan restaurants, charging in front of woke city halls etc.
"There’s a place for battery cars and scooters…your local city dump” -Randy M
Thats too bad man. I appreciated your posts. Good to get an idea of what the market is. Better than going to the dealer and get treated as a peasant when you’ve bought x amount of cars from them. Nothing worse than having a salesman who drives a Passat treat you as if your panhandling.
This place is filled with Karen’s. Better to just ignore them.
I have decided to not support rennlist via official sponsor and vendor, and will decide to not pay the platform $400 a month just to have posts removed and moderators using tactics that block my offerings.
I don’t believe this is the place to conduct business and sell actual new 911 models. It seems this community has perfected acquiring new models and are fully connected
anyway, it’s been fun for the two weeks and I’ve decided it’s time to be apart of a bigger, better, and authentic community.
P ICE cars who’s tech is outdated are usually prized possessions and therefore appreciate, an EV who’s tech is outdated will be looked down upon and not to mention a liability both financially and safety wise.
What's nice is that Porsche has released new stereos that include Bluetooth and Apple CarPlay that just drop in to older models. Really don't need much else unless you're talking about LCA and LKA.
01-30-2024, 08:44 PM
