speed77

I think it has more to do with the stipulations attached that makes this announcement feel some what like a ruse.

I’ve heard of the watch and occasional ppf. But an option minimum requirement and ED. That I’ve never heard of.

jjw285

lol literally the last post is saying the dealer stipulations sound like a ruse. The 992.2 to 992.1 thing I admit, I perhaps misunderstood when I got the call. I don’t pretend to be an expert, and admitted it was an error on my part.

but, my order was updated today. Just strange that the thread is literally to discuss ADM and the like, and my post gets called out as a “ruse”.

ipse dixit

Um, maybe because the 992.2 GT3 (whenever it's actually announced) will be a better car, quantitatively at least, than the 992.1.

WCGhost

This looks like his observations are limited to the UK, for us in North America the market is still different from UK and even China. Things are softening, but to a lesser extent than the UK, the dealers here seem to have some more time to play the game where they want to make things seem just as limited as before. I have heard that in the UK people have been getting 20K GBP off a new Turbo S, so the video seems accurate for that market. The issue with the "analysis" in this video is that he is just showing price decreases, and making the assumption that trend continues without going into much depth as to why it will continue. We saw a similar down trend last summer, and things actually went back up a little bit and are now going back down again, prices have not fallen straight down on GT cars. We are once again seeing a bit of a used car inventory build on GT3s. Last summer may have been the peak with 188+ cars listed online alone, that number went down to 116 early this summer, and that number is flying very high now at 165 listed just on auto trader, and this excludes the 2024 new models on dealer sites. If looking at the GT3 and the relative time left on the warranty, i think late last year was probably the lowest prices got. Right now we are seeing similar prices, but the cars are now a year older and may have some more miles on them. Last year I would have assumed the price trend continued, but it actually seemed to reverse a little bit. If I had to make another assumption, I would say prices continue to fall due to the warranty period decreasing. The one thing he points out in the above video that I think is important, is looking at the relative number of 992 GT3s vs other 992 models for sale. It is very disproportionate for a car that is supposed to be more limited and harder to obtain, there are a lot listed with still relatively low miles. This has been the case since the car was introduced, and just proves people have been speculating on the car as store of value, rather than something they wanted to drive. When you see this level of speculation on something that is not being used/driven, you get the feeling there will be more price volatility.


There is a TikTok I saw recently where the a Canadian Porsche Salesman walks through every single Porsche 911 (~20 variants) and discusses the wait times at his dealership, allocations and number of people waiting for each car. Listening to that video, it seemed a bit more in line with what I have heard in the states. There is still a significant wait for a Turbo S, Turbo S Cab, and the Targa models. The base 911 is also something you don't see allocations for and has an 11 month wait at his dealership. The cars that are attainable which I have also seen here, is the Carrera T. Both allocations and a good amount of these are now on US lots for sale. The same goes for the Carrera 4 being attainable. I do think GT3 prices are softening on the second hand market, we just saw a low mileage 992 PTS PDK Jade Green sell on BAT for $27K over MSRP this week.

I know if people give any speculative opinions a lot of people will cry here, so I will be careful in just mentioning what I have heard on other in demand cars from salespeople. I am hearing from dealers the demand for the Dakar has actually fallen off a cliff, a bit surprising for a limited car, even if they are planning to add an off road variant to the lineup as rumored, it just seems odd. A couple of dealers are now saying MSRP is possible (no history at dealership), but we will see what happens. Other dealers who have ordered cars and have them coming in, they previously were asking $30K-$60K over MSRP this summer, and they still have not sold those same cars. I am getting a good amount of dealers pro actively reaching out on this car when i inquired as early as January as they are now being delivered with no buyers in sight. It seems there are no buyers at $50K+ ADM on that car.

DodoBrd

I think it's less about Econ 101 and more about behavioral economics (201?) haha. Price is everything and Porsche have historically used the best pricing firm on earth (Simon-Kucher) to help with their pricing strategies.

Why do you think there is so much demand for the GT3? Because at MSRP, it's an enormous VALUE, which creates outsized demand and the perception of scarcity (this is great for a luxury brand). Some people will undoubtedly pay more than MSRP because they value it more and will get more utility from it. You also have to look at the market in it's entirely and the MSRP relative to other Porsches and Mclaren/Ferrari/Lambo.

In essence, the price is everything, it's the market clearing price. The last thing a luxury brand wants is to have their products discounted.

jjw285

I get it. .1 or .2 makes no difference for me, but I get that for many of you it does. To each his own I suppose, I'm ok if its the lesser is what I was getting at.

Diablo Dude

Just an FYI:

I received delivery of my 992 GT3 Touring in early January of this year.

I live in the San Francisco East Bay, and to this day have never seen "another" Touring in the wild.
In fact, I've only seen one other 992 GT3 (winged) car in my daily travels this year. With Luftgekuhlt 9 in my backyard in May, I attended and was shocked to not see a single Touring.
Mine was the only one.

Luftgekuhlt 9: Reliving the World's Most Anticipated Air-Cooled Porsche Gathering (motortrend.com)

speed77

I think @DodoBrd nailed it. I’m sure some people find other cars in the 300k - 400k better than the RS (or subtract 100k from that range for gt3) but I’ve driven them all. None of the other manufacturers are making a product that suits what I’m looking for in a car in those ranges. Very subjective but that’s my sentiment.

And if there’s not enough supply to meet demand (which seems to think very similar to myself in terms of value for the cars) then people will be willing to spend more to own the cars. Simple as that.

The only counter to this argument is the historical trend of adms early on in releases. 991.1 RS had crazy premiums as they said it was “the last one”. 991.2 RS was a bit different. But consistently the early adm craze tempers once increased supply arrives. However, in the case of the 992 gt3 and rs my assumption is that demand will continue to outpace supply.

scroll back to the first few posts in this thread. People were complaining about 30-40k over for a 992 gt3. Today that doesn’t seem terrible (but not super great either).

Manifold

FWIW, I got my 992 GT3 a couple months ago and have put more than 2k miles on it. IMO, the car is worth MSRP, but not worth a significant ADM. That's what I thought before I got the car, and that's what I still think. I have a feeling that 'the market' will eventually come closer to that view, hence Porsche pricing the car where they have, but I could be wrong. We shall see.

Diablo Dude

This might be your best post yet on this thread.
I think you nailed it. There is simply no other GT car at this PRICE POINT that offers the kind of performance that the GT3 does.
It's not even close.

Well done Sir.

Manifold

Respectfully, I think 992 GT3 competes with all of the 991, 997, and 996 GT cars, as well as various 911 non-GT cars. There are a lot of choices in the $100-300k range.

white6speed

I think most all of Porsche’s sports cars are really great cars and Porsche is challenged by expected improvements each model year no matter how little or big (engine) the change may be. I have a small amount of track time but have a huge respect for the real drivers and know they could take an inferior car and wear me out. All this goes to underscore that most comments on these threads are about the cars and not much about driver skills. I would be interested in those that believe they can “outdrive” their respective cars.

Diablo Dude

I was talking about competing with GT cars of other car companies.
Hence, the price point comment.

Manifold

I agree that Porsche lacks competition from other car companies in that price range.

MB, BMW, and Audi have some good stuff, but it doesn't really match Porsches on several attributes.

Some American cars are fast and fun, but ... [insert unspoken thoughts here].

McLaren offers real competition IMO, but they're generally priced above $200k at the entry level and have sparse dealer network and smallish community.

Ferrari, Lambo, and other exotics seem to be priced higher (I've never seriously shopped for them, I stick with budget high-end cars).

Diablo Dude

Treynor, who has pretty much owned and tracked every high-performance car on the planet told me that the 992 GT3 was incrementally, yet significantly better than the previous 991 generation. And that there was no other sports car that could match the GT3's performance for the price.

Hearing that gave me a lot of confidence with my purchase.
He was spot-on.