Porsche Sales Figures
11-25-2016, 12:51 PM
#121
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Ok. Thanks I missed that.
Thanks for posting the other data.
I do think everything is interrelated (i.e. the world picture). Porsche can only produce X number of 911s. If demand is very high in China and softer in the US, they are going to shift allocations to China from the US. The appearance to us looking at only the US sales figures from Panamera magazine is that the 911 is not doing so well when in fact it may be doing very well world wide. China is the center of gravity and focus of Porsche right now. That is where the growth it.
Last edited by subshooter; 11-27-2016 at 09:04 AM.
11-25-2016, 12:57 PM
#122
Race Director
911 sales worldwide are slightly up. Like I mentioned, reduced US allocations have been adjusted to more closely meet demand.
The allocations are out there. I had no problem finding two configurable ones in 15 minutes a few weeks back with one delivering in January. Some dealers play into the narrative and try to play the "hard to get game" a bit much.
At this point, I'm just running around in circles with the same info.
Will report back once November sales are posted. Later!
The allocations are out there. I had no problem finding two configurable ones in 15 minutes a few weeks back with one delivering in January. Some dealers play into the narrative and try to play the "hard to get game" a bit much.
At this point, I'm just running around in circles with the same info.
Will report back once November sales are posted. Later!
11-25-2016, 02:34 PM
#124
All things are relative in life...and relatively speaking...Porsche AG is faring pretty well, is it not - given the discombobulating political and economic news across the World ?
Whilst concerns about over-supplied hi-end Cayennes, lack of supply of Gen 2s in certain markets, Macans bought by cross-shopping Porsche wannabees, over-inflated prices for options and slumping 991.2 sales are all present & correct, it does put me in mind that 911 owners seem to fall into two main mindsets.
(1) Those that focus on residuals, discounts, pricing and lease deals (and consequently formulaic specifications) and (2) those that just get on with buying their new car to their personal spec and celebrating that such a car - still uncontaminated by part-bin core components - remains out there to buy for a third of a 488 GTB. There are, indeed, reasons to be cheerful.....
Whilst concerns about over-supplied hi-end Cayennes, lack of supply of Gen 2s in certain markets, Macans bought by cross-shopping Porsche wannabees, over-inflated prices for options and slumping 991.2 sales are all present & correct, it does put me in mind that 911 owners seem to fall into two main mindsets.
(1) Those that focus on residuals, discounts, pricing and lease deals (and consequently formulaic specifications) and (2) those that just get on with buying their new car to their personal spec and celebrating that such a car - still uncontaminated by part-bin core components - remains out there to buy for a third of a 488 GTB. There are, indeed, reasons to be cheerful.....
11-25-2016, 02:53 PM
#125
Three Wheelin'
My feeling is that it was targeted 911 market share improvement in China that is driving the US situation more than it is Porsche's attempt to curtail US supply to better meet anticipated lower demand. It will be interesting to see how allocations and sales in the US are in 2017 as a comparison.
11-26-2016, 12:47 AM
#127
RL Community Team
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Same thing is happening in the USA.
This is NOT demand related, but Porsche trying to more tightly control the supply, increase margins, and have stronger resale prices. I've said this since the beginning of this post.
They did not like what happened with the Panamera's, Turbo S's, and Cayenne's over the last 1-2 years. Too many out there, and excessive discounting to move them which also hurts resale prices and new car sales when deprecation is so high.
Places highlighting the depreciation and educating people on preowned market like "Hot for Sale" and Rennlist in general puts more of an advantage in the buyers hands. Not exactly beneficial and looked favorably upon dealers and PCNA.
The three D's aren't something they want associated anywhere close the the Porsche name. Deals, Discounting, and Depreciation.
Porcshe can definitely have an influence on future preowned prices by what they do with new cars.
Look at what Rolex does!
This is NOT demand related, but Porsche trying to more tightly control the supply, increase margins, and have stronger resale prices. I've said this since the beginning of this post.
They did not like what happened with the Panamera's, Turbo S's, and Cayenne's over the last 1-2 years. Too many out there, and excessive discounting to move them which also hurts resale prices and new car sales when deprecation is so high.
Places highlighting the depreciation and educating people on preowned market like "Hot for Sale" and Rennlist in general puts more of an advantage in the buyers hands. Not exactly beneficial and looked favorably upon dealers and PCNA.
The three D's aren't something they want associated anywhere close the the Porsche name. Deals, Discounting, and Depreciation.
Porcshe can definitely have an influence on future preowned prices by what they do with new cars.
Look at what Rolex does!
By restricting supply, it can create more demand. As in, "we always want, sometimes more, what we cannot have."
To use your Rolex example, there is nothing inherently significant, from a horological standpoint, about the Daytona -- esp. the all-steel iteration -- but because the supply of the Daytona is less vis-a-vis other Rolex models, there is this heightened sense of uber demand for what is otherwise a rather pedestrian watch.
11-26-2016, 09:45 AM
#128
Race Director
Originally Posted by ipse dixit
Well, technically it is demand related.
By restricting supply, it can create more demand. As in, "we always want, sometimes more, what we cannot have."
To use your Rolex example, there is nothing inherently significant, from a horological standpoint, about the Daytona -- esp. the all-steel iteration -- but because the supply of the Daytona is less vis-a-vis other Rolex models, there is this heightened sense of uber demand for what is otherwise a rather pedestrian watch.
By restricting supply, it can create more demand. As in, "we always want, sometimes more, what we cannot have."
To use your Rolex example, there is nothing inherently significant, from a horological standpoint, about the Daytona -- esp. the all-steel iteration -- but because the supply of the Daytona is less vis-a-vis other Rolex models, there is this heightened sense of uber demand for what is otherwise a rather pedestrian watch.
I've yet to see one post of anyone saying they CAN'T get a build to spec 991.2
I've yet to see any dealer "market adjustments" on the 991.2 as well.
Rolex? Same as the GT cars, they can make more, just decide not to. Just like the pedestrian Daytona, except the Daytona is much more reliable.
11-26-2016, 10:43 AM
#129
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I have to agree with STG. In this case moving the supply curve (i.e. less allocations) from S2 to S1 (opposite direction from this generic example) shifts the supply curve left resulting in increased prices but less sold (assuming demand curve is constant). I don't think the demand curve is really moving at all but Porsche is definitely moving the supply curve left..
11-26-2016, 12:13 PM
#130
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Is it possible that Porsche themselves are acknowledging the fact that, even though the 911is their iconic vehicle, the 718s are filling the role of the true sports car, and are being produced in higher volume and at a more reasonable price? They're still offering 911 variants for the die hards or people who have always wanted a 911, but by increasing the capabilities of the 718s, and keeping the prices lower, and getting them out in higher numbers, they're gradually shifting the public's perception of a true Porsche sports car? Maybe it's an acknowledgement that the 911 is being shifted toward GT/ supercar status. In coming iterations will we even be able to get a "base" model, or will they start out with higher optioned, higher hp variants?
11-26-2016, 12:38 PM
#131
Three Wheelin'
Is it possible that Porsche themselves are acknowledging the fact that, even though the 911is their iconic vehicle, the 718s are filling the role of the true sports car, and are being produced in higher volume and at a more reasonable price? They're still offering 911 variants for the die hards or people who have always wanted a 911, but by increasing the capabilities of the 718s, and keeping the prices lower, and getting them out in higher numbers, they're gradually shifting the public's perception of a true Porsche sports car? Maybe it's an acknowledgement that the 911 is being shifted toward GT/ supercar status. In coming iterations will we even be able to get a "base" model, or will they start out with higher optioned, higher hp variants?
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/comp...ase-13048.html
Specifically.....
With global deliveries standing at 10,661 (for the Boxster) and 71,086 (for the Macan), both models achieved clear double-digit growth of 20 per cent and 13 per cent respectively. Compared with the same period in the previous year, sales of the classic 911 sportscar also increased with 25,993 vehicles delivered (+5 per cent), as did sales of the Cayman with 8471 vehicles delivered (+4 per cent).
11-26-2016, 01:09 PM
#132
This news release seems to support what you are saying about sales success of the 718's during 2016.
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/comp...ase-13048.html
Specifically.....
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/comp...ase-13048.html
Specifically.....
11-26-2016, 07:15 PM
#133
IMO, this is a common misconception. And it's usually attached to an over blown idea called "Protecting exclusivity."
Porsche will make as many 911's as there are customers who have the money to pay for them. China buys more 911's than the US because (sad to say) they have more customers with the money to pay for them than the US has.
In a nutshell, Porsche will put 911's where there is money, regardless of "exclusivity." Simple as that.
Porsche will make as many 911's as there are customers who have the money to pay for them. China buys more 911's than the US because (sad to say) they have more customers with the money to pay for them than the US has.
In a nutshell, Porsche will put 911's where there is money, regardless of "exclusivity." Simple as that.
11-26-2016, 07:49 PM
#134
Given the current situation at Zuffenhausen, where all 911's are made, along with all Boxsters and all Caymans, on the same production line. There is a real hard limit. IIRC they run a 2 shift system right now, so they perhaps would have some room to grow, if the supporting infrastructure could also grow along with a 3rd production shift.
Interesting in that Zuffenhausen is being expanded, big time, but to support the Mission-E. Perhaps the light at the end of the tunnel is electric?
Interesting in that Zuffenhausen is being expanded, big time, but to support the Mission-E. Perhaps the light at the end of the tunnel is electric?
11-26-2016, 08:22 PM
#135
Your last sentence would be correct if you added "...at an exorbitantly high premium due to exclusivity."