STG

No problem. All is good. A good discussion is great. Some people will just debate anything. Tell them it's a Tuesday today, and they'll say it's still Monday

As far as the Australia numbers above. There are some US dealers that will sell more 911's in a year than all of Australia combined. Interesting to see, but obviously small peanuts.

Al.Fresco

Actually....I think its Wednesday right now in Australia.

NoGaBiker

They're so avant garde over there!

NoGaBiker

And for the record, I totally agree with the 981S/GTS people who say the price delta to the 991 3.4 isn't worth it. If I had only been willing to pay 991.1 3.4 money (and wanted new), it would have been 981 GTS all day long over 991 base.

Haven't driven either a 991.2 or 718 so I can't weigh in on current models.

Archimedes

But the price delta between a 981 GTS and a 991.1 C2 base isn't 40 grand, it's more like $20k. The MSRP delta between my 981S and 991S, which were very similarly equipped was $33k. And would have been worth every penny had I paid MSRP for either car. In actual terms, the cost difference was $16k. After owning and driving both together for a year, it was obvious which one had to go when I needed space in the garage. Lovvvvved them both, but the 981 simply wasn't comparable to the 991 as a total package.

As much as the 718S Cayman attracts me, I just don't know if I'll ever be able to pull the trigger on that platform again unless money is a critical issue. In which case, I probably won't be shopping Porsches anyway.

ace37

While I think they could use a bit more power, I like the idea of a Cayman/Boxster race car. I prefer mid-engine dynamics over rear for predictability, and at my current skill level I don't need the extra power. That may all change later on - there's no denying the huge grip leaving an apex is fun.

Like for like, stock 911 suspension is superior. I like the 911 better as a street car with the rear seats a big factor. I would love to see a mid-engined F8TT super-Cayman slotted above the top 911. But we can already go to McLaren or Ferrari for something like that, so even more I would love to see a simple modern 911 that weighed 2500 lbs with fluids. An all aluminum platform redesign would get close. Pay more and the car weighs less.

Back closer to the topic in spirit, I'm wondering if the SUV models indirectly subsidize our sports cars, Cayman/Boxster/911/etc. It seems not directly as they need money for VW badly enough that directly earmarked funds would be scrutinized heavily for reallocation. Instead though, one reasonable way for them to set the R&D budget pool size would be to use a percentage of total Porsche revenue, then give the technical staff benchmark requirements and let them argue with one another until they decide which projects to prioritize and how heavily. Since any developed tech would be shared by all platforms the budget might also be shared. If there's much truth to it, we need to promote SUVs to increase the R&D budgets for our sports cars

NoGaBiker

And I realize that. I never said anything about 40 grand. I said I'd take the 981GTS vs 991.1 "if I had only been willing to pay 991.1 base money"; meaning I'd take the 981GTS over the 991.1 at 991.1 base price. The actual 20k price delta would just be icing on the cake.

randr

Just a quick comment on the Australian figures - a 991.2 C2S has a drive away price of $US 275,000 (For some perspective, this is 25K more than a 488 GTB in the US).

This price tag is due to a combination of factors such as luxury car tax, stamp duty, GST and small volume RHD market. There is no doubt this has an impact on overall sales numbers.

Nontheless a 50% increase in sales over 4 years, with a continued upward trend and the 911 is the number one seller in the premium sports car segment.

sctanton52

Wow, you 'mates' do pay a lot to drive fun cars. The base price for a 991.2 TTS Cab in Canada is $228,000 in Canuck Bucks, that is 'about' $183,000 Green Backs right now. In Alberta I pay 5% GST, and that's all that goes to the Feds in Ottawa, nothing goes to my provincial government. Except when I fill up the gas tank,........well that is another thread issue. I know both Australia (some 420 cars per year) and Canada at just over twice that, are 'small markets', but we too have seen 2016 as a good Porsche year, we are up over 12% in 911 sales as of the end of October. It took me a little while but I got the exact car I wanted. I first spoke to my dealer in late March, they got an allotment in late July, and I get the car in the next week, or so. How much time are you folks seeing down-under for you to get the exact car you want. My dealer said if I had not wanted a TTS Cab, he could have done it a lot quicker. I find it interesting to find out what the picture is around the world. I am assuming you are a Aussie, I have been there a few times and just love it!

Cheers,

randr

Hi Sctanton52, yes indeed I'm "true blue" and have had the good fortune to spend plenty of time in Canada and the US The allocation slots down here seem relatively rare or perhaps more accurately seem to fill up quickly.

In my case, I put in my order towards the end of August was given a build Oct/Nov which has now been moved to Dec/Jan - the build is not particularly unusual but includes rear axle steering and various personal flourishes in terms of colour choices and dials. I did have a similar experience with my GTS.

To be honest the waiting time doesn't worry me - after all I can keep investing and thereby "reduce" the cost

STG

Ok. We can agree that getting a 991.2 slot isn't some sort of lottery win. They're not hard to score, regardless of what story dealers tell you.

We can also agree the 911 is better than a Cayman/Boxster. GT4 and Spyder's are great models though. Would rather have those than a 991.2 (my opinion)


Now ..... back to basics. How well will the 718's sell?? Will they pull in Subaru guys or just **** off long time Porsche buyers?? Anyone who can afford a 718 can buy a sweet used 991.1 at the same price or much cheaper for a superior car.

randr

Depends where you are and in which country you live

Depends on model and year - I chose a GTS over a GT4 for many good reasons and in preference to the 991.1 (and I can afford any Porsche including a 918 in Australia). A 991.2 C2S with RAS has better turn in and can hold higher average lateral G than a GT4, thats not an opinion its a fact In fact its better in every performance metric, it even has faster steering, again, fact.

"Superior car" well you're simply wrong - we can discuss lateral G's etc if you like or torque curves etc or sway bars and spring rates - its would be pointless. The 718S is a great car with a wonderful chassis - I have driven one and its very good - I'd take one over a 991.1 (as long as it was a Cayman). The sales of the 718 in S guise will pick up nicely. There are many people that aren't brand sensitive. They will buy what they believe is the best. The world is full of choices - at the moment Porsche are building some great products.

Double_J

It has probably already been mentioned but TBH I didn't bother to read through all posts.

I wonder how much new model introduction timing comes into play with this year's sales. With the introduction of the 991.2 earlier this year, the 718 roll out just coming into swing, and new models/refreshes pending for both the Panamera and Cayenne I can see lots of buyers waiting on their purchases.

STG

November 2016



http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...300371658.html

Noah Fect

What's interesting about these figures is the Panamera. I was thinking that the new 98x and 99x cars were slow sellers in the US because people nervous about upcoming elections may hold back on luxuries. The Macan could be thought of as a "utility" vehicle that would presumably be less vulnerable to that effect, but if Panameras are still selling well, where does that leave us?