Archimedes

I can't speak to the 718, as I haven't driven one. I'm comparing 981 vs. 991.

I have driven the 991.2 though, and it definitely moves the bar forward in both performance terms and comfort, so the 718 would have to be a big improvement in both of those areas to close the gap with the 991.

Selo

Archimedes,
I agree that seems to be the case:. The 911 has been substantially improved in comfort in addition to performance, and in doing so, it's lost some of its original appeal. The 991/718s seem to be filling that role progressively.

Drifting

Definitely hard to argue there was any significant performance difference between the 987.2/981 Cayman S and the base 997.2/991.1 Carrera. In fact a number of car magazines did comparisons and found 0-60 and track times were virtually identical between those mid and rear engine models.

Comparing those Cayman to 911 models, only with the higher displacement engine in the Carrera S, did the 911 models have a clear performance superiority in torque and performance over the Cayman S.

It's a big reason I happily drove my 987.2 Boxster S as my first and sole Porsche for 4 years. I didn't feel the need to get a 911. Only once the 991 GT3 came out, did I feel the need to make a major upgrade to my Porsche.

I agree with you though that with the current turbo versions of these cars, Porsche has again re established a separation of the mid and rear-engine lines.

The base Carrera has 21 more ft lbs of torque over the Cayman S, and the Carrera S model has 59 ft lbs more than the Cayman. Also the 911 models have a 6 cylinder engine vs a 4 and more importantly the 911 gets twin turbos to decrease lag across a variety of engine loads and RPMs, while the Cayman only has one turbo, leading to more lag in the Cayman.

So while I didn't feel there was a clearly superiority justifying the extra expense of the 997 and 991.1 base Carreras over a Boxster/Cayman S, I've changed my mind for our current turbo powered P-cars. Not very interested in the 718 line.

VintageRacer

I've owned six 911's (still own 3, including early small-bumper long hood cars).

I am just not interested in a Cayman or Boxster. I fully understand their performance numbers.

Plimpington2

Well, I don't know.


The Porsche website lists the 0-60 times for both the Cayman 718 s and the 991.2 at 4.4 seconds each. They differ by 20 HP and 21 lbft torque. The 991.2 probably weighs more which probably explains the same acceleration numbers. As I said, the cars are damned near indistinguishable on the inside, and built to the same fit and finish. And I suspect (but do not know, of course) that drive train and chassis technology is similar (if not identical) in many respects. The engines differ - sure. But the same could not have been said of last year's Cayman/boxster models.


I've no doubt the 991.2 is incrementally better, with emphasis on incrementally, EVEN IF you cannot countenance the 4 pot turbo (I, personally, have no problem with it, as I'm in my first ever Porsche now - I didn't know any different). They didn't feel much different to me. That's a HELL of a lot of extra $$$ for whatever difference there is. As I said, if I had it to do over again, I would have bought a 718 Cayman. I'd have had enough left over for an entry level Mercedes for the winter, for crying out loud!!


To each their own.


Judd

Archimedes

Wut? I'm guessing you missed this comparison, which is a base, no option 991 against a 981 Boxter S. Spoiler, the base 991 spanks the 981S and is way more composed doing it.

And as you indicate, the 991S with performance options would crush the 981S on the track. The 991S beats the Cayman S around the Ring by about 17 seconds, which is an eternity.

Archimedes

Porsche posted numbers are basically meaningless, as they're always conservative. Motor Trend clocked 3.4 seconds in the base 991.2. My guess us that the 718S is sub 4 seconds as well.

Drifting

Car and Driver does decent comparable instrumented tests.

For the 991.2 base Carrera, 0-60 was 3.4 seconds
For the 718 Cayman S, 0-60 was 3.6 seconds

Hurricane

Both of those are amazing times. What a time we live in! Wow!

Supercar quick, not that many years ago...

Drifting

Thank you, I missed that video. Didn't know Car and Driver did that kind of overseas segment, and interesting that they used the staff from Evo, Jethro Bovington, a 911 owner himself.

However, I wouldn't say the 911 spanked the Boxster S. The 0-60 times were essentially the same. No spanking there. I do concede that the 991 won, didn't spank, but won the track test as it was a second faster around the track, which matters. Jethro didn't say anything about what tires were on both cars, however.

Since the time the Boxster was designed, the 911 has had an excellent rear multi-link suspension system, which is superior to the rear struts of a Boxster/Cayman. However, having a similar engine torque and being better balanced as a mid-engine car, I still say the 987 Cayman/Boxster S was equal to the 997 base carerra. Thats when I did most of my research was, because I was first purchased a new Porsche in the 997.2 and 987.2 era. At that time and even now, I don't think it was worth it from a performance standpoint to spend the money to buy a 997.2 base Carrera over a 987.2 Boxster/Cayman S.

However, with the 991.1 platform, the engine moved forward, and became less of a 911 and closer to a mid-engine car, which I expect in combination with the traditionally better rear suspension, is what gave the 991.1 the win in the track portion of the video.

In any case, as I previously mentioned regarding the 991.2 and 718 generation, there is now even more of a significant gap now between those cars these days. So you can rest easy, your 911 is king.......

VintageRacer

I can't offer any pictures, but I would never, in a thousand years buy anything but a 911.

You guys are confused by the media and some sort of low-budget information.

I'm sorry that you need to worry about a few thousand dollars. The 991 is the better car if you can afford it.

STG

+991

And so much better looking! The new 4 banger single turbo is pathetic. Long live the GT4.


I'm not sure why this thread has gotten so off topic.

Archimedes

They both look bone stock on stock tires. Two things struck me about that video. First, if there was ever a track that should favor the supposedly more flickable 981, that was it. A lot of people are fooled by the go party feel of the 981 into thinking it's performing better than it actually is.

Second, I was struck by how much more composed the 991 looked when cornering. It looks better on entry, mid corner and on exit, and that is a totally base, standard unadjustable suspension, first year 991. People forget how long Porsche has been refining that chassis and how good it is.

I loved my Cayman, but the Carrera is just on another level in every sense. The 981 Spyder was closer, but still not quite as refined.

Drifting

Sorry, mostly my fault. I was responding to someone else asking if the 40,000 priced difference was justified, but then I just kept going. Sorry about that.

On with the original topic.

randr

911 sales Australia (data from VFACTS)

2013 - 276
2014 - 366
2015 - 377
2016 - 402 to Oct (projected to 422 for 2016 in total - very conservative projection)

The Cayman and 911 debate is quite amusing - I have the 981GTS and wouldn't go near a 991.1. The 991.2 C2S changed my mind and I have one on order and I will keep the 981 GTS

991.2 C2S 0 - 60mph 3.1s and 1/4 mile 11.5s @ 121mph (Motor Trend). Ring time 7:34 (Chris Gebhardt - Journalist/Driver) Vs Cayman 718S 7:46.8 (Chris Gebhardt). Both ring times are blisteringly quick for road cars on street tires.


All is well in the land of Porsche