Official waiting room for those with a new 991.2 on order --- come on in !!
08-15-2016, 12:39 PM
#1261
Rennlist Member
Thank you. Did you have a chance to see the B/B fully in person before ordering? I wish I could have, to get a sense of the full amount of red you get, and to stack that against the highly variable photos of the color you see online, and also to assess if the sheer volume of red color overwhelms even the more reserved color choice. Maybe the 18-way seats with their silver back would be a good way to reduce the "red sea", too?
Last edited by philg3; 08-16-2016 at 07:45 PM.
08-15-2016, 03:15 PM
#1262
Instructor
Originally Posted by fuddman
Anecdote: Did you notice your temporary tags expire on 911?
I think that may be good luck.
I think that may be good luck.
08-15-2016, 04:25 PM
#1263
Burning Brakes
Add me to the waiting room.
Long wait for my Targa 4S as she is not going to arrive until November:
Build:
1 991520 911 Targa 4S
2 2Y Carrara White Metallic
3 1V Cabriolet Roof in Black
4 BM Leather Interior in Black/Bordeaux Red
5 022 Instrument Dials in Black
6 342 Seat Heating (Front)
7 439 20" 911 Turbo Wheels
8 446 Wheel Center Caps with Colored Porsche Crest
9 541 Seat Ventilation (Front)
10 581 Luggage Net in Passenger Footwell
11 583 Smoking Package
12 970 Two-Tone Leather Interior
13 P05 Sport Seats Plus (4-way)
14 XLU Sun Visors in Alcantara
15 XXB Door-Sill Guards in Stainless Steel, Illuminated
16 P3P Sport Package
Sport Exhaust System
GT Sport Steering Wheel
Rear Axle Steering
Sport Chrono Package
SportDesign Side Mirrors
http://www.porsche-code.com/PHH5QN53
Long wait for my Targa 4S as she is not going to arrive until November:
Build:
1 991520 911 Targa 4S
2 2Y Carrara White Metallic
3 1V Cabriolet Roof in Black
4 BM Leather Interior in Black/Bordeaux Red
5 022 Instrument Dials in Black
6 342 Seat Heating (Front)
7 439 20" 911 Turbo Wheels
8 446 Wheel Center Caps with Colored Porsche Crest
9 541 Seat Ventilation (Front)
10 581 Luggage Net in Passenger Footwell
11 583 Smoking Package
12 970 Two-Tone Leather Interior
13 P05 Sport Seats Plus (4-way)
14 XLU Sun Visors in Alcantara
15 XXB Door-Sill Guards in Stainless Steel, Illuminated
16 P3P Sport Package
Sport Exhaust System
GT Sport Steering Wheel
Rear Axle Steering
Sport Chrono Package
SportDesign Side Mirrors
http://www.porsche-code.com/PHH5QN53
Last edited by Jenner; 08-29-2016 at 04:52 PM. Reason: added XLU
08-16-2016, 08:56 AM
#1264
Track Day
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
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Planet--what a gorgeous car! However, I have to admit that I spec'd out an almost identical C4S for all the same reasons--except for the sport package, the brushed aluminum, the rear badging, and the front axle lift.
For rear badging, I kept the whole model name, but had it painted. The front axle lift I debated about, but my dealer talked me out of it--besides, I don't have a problem driveway and thought speed bumps might still pose a problem for the rear of the car. As for the sport package, I went a-la-carte, mainly because I wanted the folding side mirrors, and I also didn't like the extra rivets on the sport wheel (the sport wheel is also smaller, and I like my steering wheel all the way out and all the way down, which left the smaller circumferance blocking the gauges). And I, too, really like the Spyder RS wheels, but this year they are in a dark gray finish instead of the lighter aluminum finish of last year, which made both my wife and me decide on the standard wheels. I also plan to drive the car much as you do--daily driver, as well as short trip on windy country roads and long trip (cross-country) traveler.
As for price, I, too, got a straight 5% off, without any model consideration--though I did get a sense that a C4S allocation was easier to get in my case than a C4. And I agree with you about the C4--more planted feel, and more confidence in inclement weather (we now live in VA).
This will be my third Porsche (I had a 1974 Porsche/VW 914/2.0 for 8.5 years) and second 911 (this 991.2 C4S will replace our 16-year-old Arctic Silver over Graphite Gray 2001 996 C4--and the 991.2 will be my second ordered-from-the-factory 911). I ordered the car late June, with scheduled build sometime in Sept., and delivery around Nov. 4 at PEC Atlanta.
All the best with your car, Planet! Post pictures when you get it.
For rear badging, I kept the whole model name, but had it painted. The front axle lift I debated about, but my dealer talked me out of it--besides, I don't have a problem driveway and thought speed bumps might still pose a problem for the rear of the car. As for the sport package, I went a-la-carte, mainly because I wanted the folding side mirrors, and I also didn't like the extra rivets on the sport wheel (the sport wheel is also smaller, and I like my steering wheel all the way out and all the way down, which left the smaller circumferance blocking the gauges). And I, too, really like the Spyder RS wheels, but this year they are in a dark gray finish instead of the lighter aluminum finish of last year, which made both my wife and me decide on the standard wheels. I also plan to drive the car much as you do--daily driver, as well as short trip on windy country roads and long trip (cross-country) traveler.
As for price, I, too, got a straight 5% off, without any model consideration--though I did get a sense that a C4S allocation was easier to get in my case than a C4. And I agree with you about the C4--more planted feel, and more confidence in inclement weather (we now live in VA).
This will be my third Porsche (I had a 1974 Porsche/VW 914/2.0 for 8.5 years) and second 911 (this 991.2 C4S will replace our 16-year-old Arctic Silver over Graphite Gray 2001 996 C4--and the 991.2 will be my second ordered-from-the-factory 911). I ordered the car late June, with scheduled build sometime in Sept., and delivery around Nov. 4 at PEC Atlanta.
All the best with your car, Planet! Post pictures when you get it.
08-16-2016, 11:57 AM
#1265
Phil - My wife also thinks I'm crazy for the B/B choice, but says, "do what you want, it's your car" too. We've bought too many compromise cars over the years, and I'm due to get the spec I want. 
Fjord - Thanks for posting your options considerations -- useful and interesting. On the topic of breaking the Sports Package to go a la carte to avoid the GT multifunction wheel with rivets... I've read elsewhere that the smaller GT wheel can block gauges, as well. I didn't get a strong sense of that from the test drives (though I might have been distracted by other things... *cough*). I'll need to give this some more thought and maybe drop by the dealership to get a sense of how much of an issue this is likely to be.
Fjord - Thanks for posting your options considerations -- useful and interesting. On the topic of breaking the Sports Package to go a la carte to avoid the GT multifunction wheel with rivets... I've read elsewhere that the smaller GT wheel can block gauges, as well. I didn't get a strong sense of that from the test drives (though I might have been distracted by other things... *cough*). I'll need to give this some more thought and maybe drop by the dealership to get a sense of how much of an issue this is likely to be.
08-16-2016, 07:54 PM
#1266
Rennlist Member
Phil - My wife also thinks I'm crazy for the B/B choice, but says, "do what you want, it's your car" too. We've bought too many compromise cars over the years, and I'm due to get the spec I want.
Fjord - Thanks for posting your options considerations -- useful and interesting. On the topic of breaking the Sports Package to go a la carte to avoid the GT multifunction wheel with rivets... I've read elsewhere that the smaller GT wheel can block gauges, as well. I didn't get a strong sense of that from the test drives (though I might have been distracted by other things... *cough*). I'll need to give this some more thought and maybe drop by the dealership to get a sense of how much of an issue this is likely to be.
Fjord - Thanks for posting your options considerations -- useful and interesting. On the topic of breaking the Sports Package to go a la carte to avoid the GT multifunction wheel with rivets... I've read elsewhere that the smaller GT wheel can block gauges, as well. I didn't get a strong sense of that from the test drives (though I might have been distracted by other things... *cough*). I'll need to give this some more thought and maybe drop by the dealership to get a sense of how much of an issue this is likely to be.
08-18-2016, 12:18 PM
#1267
Instructor
Well I finally picked up my 991.2 on Monday and love it!! Trying to get my break in mileage done so i can have some fun with it. I will say it is so much more refined and better engineered then my Corvette Z06.
I'd also like to point out that i ordered the Grey tach and have experienced NO glare issues or difficulty seeing it, so maybe its not a problem on the 2017...
Oh, and for those people asking about the marker lights my dealer changed them in less then 5 minutes with no issues.
I'd also like to point out that i ordered the Grey tach and have experienced NO glare issues or difficulty seeing it, so maybe its not a problem on the 2017...
Oh, and for those people asking about the marker lights my dealer changed them in less then 5 minutes with no issues.
08-18-2016, 12:44 PM
#1268
Instructor
Just joined the waiting room ranks today! This will be my third custom-built German car order (previously: a 2001 E46 330i and a 2011 F10 535i), but my first Porsche. Got 5% off MSRP at a local Bay Area dealership, so I placed my deposit with "no later than January" ETA.
No allocation yet, so I'd appreciate comments on the build, if anyone would like to take a look.
Intended use for 3 things (1) as a semi-daily driver through the congested freeways of the Bay Area, in tandem with my more stately/boat-y 2011 BMW 535i, (2) spirited drives out on the twisties whenever I can, and (3) weekend trips up or down the coast, into wine country, or up into the foothills / Sierra Nevadas. I do not intend to track the car.
Current config, with commentary on choices:
So that's where I'm at now. Would be interested in any thoughts/feedback! Now, off to set a 160 day countdown timer...
No allocation yet, so I'd appreciate comments on the build, if anyone would like to take a look.
Intended use for 3 things (1) as a semi-daily driver through the congested freeways of the Bay Area, in tandem with my more stately/boat-y 2011 BMW 535i, (2) spirited drives out on the twisties whenever I can, and (3) weekend trips up or down the coast, into wine country, or up into the foothills / Sierra Nevadas. I do not intend to track the car.
Current config, with commentary on choices:
- Carrera 4S. Strongly considered the 2S because I'm in northern California and apparently it will never rain here ever again. I didn't choose the 4S for its silly 0-to-60 time (*cough*), but rather for the planted road feel, which is exceptional. And also because I do sometimes head up into the Sierras or to Lake Tahoe and occasionally encounter "weather", I'd like the option of taking the fun car with some peace of mind. Didn't consider the non-S versions.
- GT Silver Metallic. The biggest variable. The GT Silver is a gorgeous silver color -- but it is silver, and rather vanilla. Other options are Night Blue and Sapphire blue. My wife thinks Sapphire Blue will look dated (if not already), and likes Night Blue the best. However, all shall not be vanilla on the interior...
- Black/Bordeaux Red leather. This is a bit risky, but IMHO provides a nice color theme and visual interest -- especially given the red breaks and the 4S's continuous red light strip around the back. (Yes, they're different reds, I know.) I looked at black/bordeaux samples at the dealership, and it's certainly less wild than the old red (Garnet Red?) that was previously available, and a touch more sedate, or perhaps refined, or perhaps classy? I love the red deviated stitching against the black, as well. If I flip my exterior color to one of the blues, it won't work, so I'd need to go all-black. But for now, Silver over Black/Bordeaux.
- Premium Package Plus. No brainer, seems to me.
- Sport Package. De rigeur overall, though each component in the package seems to have its detractors. My F10 has rear axle steering, and it does make a difference. Of course, implementations vary. But I do like it. The rivets on the GT wheel... not so much.
- PDK. Thought about a manual for about 5 seconds before abandoning the idea, since this would be doing at least some commuter duty in the Bay Area.
- 20" Carerra S wheels with colored wheel caps. The standard wheels look pretty good, though I am on-again/off-again strongly considering the RS Spyder wheels.
- Model Designation "911". The simplified badging is classy, IMO.
- Sunroof in Glass. The black sunroof goes better with Night Blue than with a brighter color, like the Silver, but it's worth it.
- Front Axle Lift. My driveway has a strong incline and even my F10 will scrape against it unless I'm careful. The lower 911 is definitely cause for concern, so this goes on the list.
- ACC. Didn't buy it on the F10, and wish I had. Won't make the same mistake again.
- LCA. Nice feature, and. I'm used to this feature.
- Multifunction/heated wheel. Multifunction w/ the Sport package gets you the smaller GT wheel with rivets/screws and multifunction buttons. I'd prefer to avoid the rivets on the wheel, but to get the pure Multifunction wheel I'd need to break the sports package and go a la carte, which will cost a bunch of cash. Not worth avoiding the rivets.
- 14-way Power Sport Seats. Having sat in boththe 14's and 18's, I find the 14's quite comfortable.
- Smoking pkg
- Luggage net
- Instrument Dials in Black. Absolutely.
- Steering column casing in leather. Saw some reviews/threads which mentioned this, and I agree. Great tip.
- Porsche crest on headrests. Since the seats are a large solid mass of leather, this helps add some detail to an otherwise blank surface.
- Brushed Aluminum package. Have seen in person and I like the look. Did have a moment's pause since the door handles, shifter area, and steering wheel don't get changed to match, but I think it still works.
- Bose stereo. Go back and forth between this and the Burmester. My salesman indicated that all the sound systems were moderately improved (more watts, perhaps some mechanical changes?), and the Bose sounds better this before. No idea, I think the Bose is fine. Not great, but good.
So that's where I'm at now. Would be interested in any thoughts/feedback! Now, off to set a 160 day countdown timer...
. All the best.
08-18-2016, 06:12 PM
#1269
Rennlist Member
Well, I ended up kicking my date out a month and won't see the car until around Christmas - Santa will be kind this year. I changed models from a Carrera S with way too many options to a more moderately spec'd Turbo. I talked with my SA and sent him a message today telling him I'd like to go ahead, and the build locks around the end of the month. My new build is the code below plus red deviated stitching:
http://www.porsche-code.com/PHFD76G2
I love red sports cars, and after seeing the aerokit in person, I think the turbo in Guards Red with the black aerokit and glass sunroof will just be stunning to me. I really liked my SA's idea of giving it black "911" badging, so I went with that too among other things.
The story behind the change for anyone interested:
Basically my original SA went on a long leave of absence (travel and such, happy for him) and my new SA told me that Porsche had actually not locked my C2S build yet after all and asked me to verify / finalize it in case I wanted to make any last minute changes before the end of the month. I was thinking I was already committed, but for some reason this made me go through the whole thinking process all over again...
In talking with my wife about the incoming car these last few weeks I unintentionally kept mentioning things about the next car I would get -- meaning the car after the 991.2 C2S I was ordering -- and she was kind of scratching her head as to why I'd want to spend so much on a new car if I were left obsessing over the one that would follow. I thought about it as it was a really good point, so I eventually figured out what was going on in my head. I wanted to custom order and keep my very own "special" model. To me "special" meant either a GT3/2 or turbo/TTS. Emotional purchases seem to defy reason sometimes - I think this was one of those times. I just try to understand and embrace the emotion.
I'm not comfortable our financial position is strong enough to justify a well optioned TTS and I really want rear seats at this stage, so that made it clear I really only had two reasonable options: hold to the plan (a good plan!) or increase the budget and get a turbo. So I went in and talked about it with my SA to see what he thought and what they could do. They have a configurable Turbo allocation open a month later than my C2S, and since their C2S allocations are gone for the year they were pretty happy to sell the more expensive turbo and free up an open C2S allocation to whoever is next on the list. Ok, first step is looking good - next I wanted to talk to my wife to see what she thought. She said that it's a big purchase, so it really wouldn't make sense to spend all the money and still not have what I want - no sense going halfway. Provided we can afford it, get whatever makes me happy. Well, that's a pretty solid endorsement, awesome! So I told the SA to go ahead today and sent him the build.
And I think I made the right call changing - the Carrera S made me happy, but last night I was surprised to find myself so excited I could hardly sleep. Well, to be fair, our nine month old didn't help! But it was a whole new level of enthusiasm. I think at one point I had a 911 turbo on my wall as a kid. And who knows, maybe that's the reason for the excitement.
http://www.porsche-code.com/PHFD76G2
I love red sports cars, and after seeing the aerokit in person, I think the turbo in Guards Red with the black aerokit and glass sunroof will just be stunning to me. I really liked my SA's idea of giving it black "911" badging, so I went with that too among other things.
The story behind the change for anyone interested:
Basically my original SA went on a long leave of absence (travel and such, happy for him) and my new SA told me that Porsche had actually not locked my C2S build yet after all and asked me to verify / finalize it in case I wanted to make any last minute changes before the end of the month. I was thinking I was already committed, but for some reason this made me go through the whole thinking process all over again...
In talking with my wife about the incoming car these last few weeks I unintentionally kept mentioning things about the next car I would get -- meaning the car after the 991.2 C2S I was ordering -- and she was kind of scratching her head as to why I'd want to spend so much on a new car if I were left obsessing over the one that would follow. I thought about it as it was a really good point, so I eventually figured out what was going on in my head. I wanted to custom order and keep my very own "special" model. To me "special" meant either a GT3/2 or turbo/TTS. Emotional purchases seem to defy reason sometimes - I think this was one of those times. I just try to understand and embrace the emotion.
I'm not comfortable our financial position is strong enough to justify a well optioned TTS and I really want rear seats at this stage, so that made it clear I really only had two reasonable options: hold to the plan (a good plan!) or increase the budget and get a turbo. So I went in and talked about it with my SA to see what he thought and what they could do. They have a configurable Turbo allocation open a month later than my C2S, and since their C2S allocations are gone for the year they were pretty happy to sell the more expensive turbo and free up an open C2S allocation to whoever is next on the list. Ok, first step is looking good - next I wanted to talk to my wife to see what she thought. She said that it's a big purchase, so it really wouldn't make sense to spend all the money and still not have what I want - no sense going halfway. Provided we can afford it, get whatever makes me happy. Well, that's a pretty solid endorsement, awesome! So I told the SA to go ahead today and sent him the build.
And I think I made the right call changing - the Carrera S made me happy, but last night I was surprised to find myself so excited I could hardly sleep. Well, to be fair, our nine month old didn't help! But it was a whole new level of enthusiasm. I think at one point I had a 911 turbo on my wall as a kid. And who knows, maybe that's the reason for the excitement.
08-19-2016, 02:31 PM
#1270
Burning Brakes
I just received my Targa last week and the car is amazing! I love it! I'm really happy with the spec I picked out. My car is GT silver with black/bordeaux interior. I'm glad I went with the GT silver as the bordeaux is a little darker than red and matches the medium silver of the GT perfectly.
As for driving dynamics, the car is awesome. The ride in the Targa is perfect, no cowl shake, it feels solid, even over bad roads. I only drive in Sport mode, so I'm glad I have the sports chrono even with the MT. As as soon as I start the car I turn the steering wheel dial to S, which turns on PSE and turns off Auto Stop/Start. It also pretty well eliminates any turbo lag. Although some have mentioned they notice it, I do not. By the way, the only way I notice the turbos is the "whoosh" when you accelerate hard. So I would say that even if you have a MT, sports chrono and PSE are worth it. The new engines also feel very fast, even with my base engine in the "porker" Targa. The 0-60 times for the new Targa 4 and 991.1 Targa GTS are identical, even with the GTS having much more hp.
Any complaints? Fuel consumption sucks, but it's probably my driving style in S mode. My keys dangling from the key ring may scratch the metal trim under the keyhole. With the top down, my kids in the back say it's too windy, fine, get in the minivan. Otherwise perfect.
So, for me, driving with the top down, MT, Sports mode, PSE on is bliss! Anyone waiting for a new 991.2 is in for a real treat.
(Sorry for the crappy iPhone picks).
As for driving dynamics, the car is awesome. The ride in the Targa is perfect, no cowl shake, it feels solid, even over bad roads. I only drive in Sport mode, so I'm glad I have the sports chrono even with the MT. As as soon as I start the car I turn the steering wheel dial to S, which turns on PSE and turns off Auto Stop/Start. It also pretty well eliminates any turbo lag. Although some have mentioned they notice it, I do not. By the way, the only way I notice the turbos is the "whoosh" when you accelerate hard. So I would say that even if you have a MT, sports chrono and PSE are worth it. The new engines also feel very fast, even with my base engine in the "porker" Targa. The 0-60 times for the new Targa 4 and 991.1 Targa GTS are identical, even with the GTS having much more hp.
Any complaints? Fuel consumption sucks, but it's probably my driving style in S mode. My keys dangling from the key ring may scratch the metal trim under the keyhole. With the top down, my kids in the back say it's too windy, fine, get in the minivan. Otherwise perfect.
So, for me, driving with the top down, MT, Sports mode, PSE on is bliss! Anyone waiting for a new 991.2 is in for a real treat.
(Sorry for the crappy iPhone picks).
08-19-2016, 02:45 PM
#1271
Rennlist Member
I just received my Targa last week and the car is amazing! I love it! I'm really happy with the spec I picked out. My car is GT silver with black/bordeaux interior. I'm glad I went with the GT silver as the bordeaux is a little darker than red and matches the medium silver of the GT perfectly.
As for driving dynamics, the car is awesome. The ride in the Targa is perfect, no cowl shake, it feels solid, even over bad roads. I only drive in Sport mode, so I'm glad I have the sports chrono even with the MT. As as soon as I start the car I turn the steering wheel dial to S, which turns on PSE and turns off Auto Stop/Start. It also pretty well eliminates any turbo lag. Although some have mentioned they notice it, I do not. By the way, the only way I notice the turbos is the "whoosh" when you accelerate hard. So I would say that even if you have a MT, sports chrono and PSE are worth it. The new engines also feel very fast, even with my base engine in the "porker" Targa. The 0-60 times for the new Targa 4 and 991.1 Targa GTS are identical, even with the GTS having much more hp.
Any complaints? Fuel consumption sucks, but it's probably my driving style in S mode. My keys dangling from the key ring may scratch the metal trim under the keyhole. With the top down, my kids in the back say it's too windy, fine, get in the minivan. Otherwise perfect.
So, for me, driving with the top down, MT, Sports mode, PSE on is bliss! Anyone waiting for a new 991.2 is in for a real treat.
(Sorry for the crappy iPhone picks).
As for driving dynamics, the car is awesome. The ride in the Targa is perfect, no cowl shake, it feels solid, even over bad roads. I only drive in Sport mode, so I'm glad I have the sports chrono even with the MT. As as soon as I start the car I turn the steering wheel dial to S, which turns on PSE and turns off Auto Stop/Start. It also pretty well eliminates any turbo lag. Although some have mentioned they notice it, I do not. By the way, the only way I notice the turbos is the "whoosh" when you accelerate hard. So I would say that even if you have a MT, sports chrono and PSE are worth it. The new engines also feel very fast, even with my base engine in the "porker" Targa. The 0-60 times for the new Targa 4 and 991.1 Targa GTS are identical, even with the GTS having much more hp.
Any complaints? Fuel consumption sucks, but it's probably my driving style in S mode. My keys dangling from the key ring may scratch the metal trim under the keyhole. With the top down, my kids in the back say it's too windy, fine, get in the minivan. Otherwise perfect.
So, for me, driving with the top down, MT, Sports mode, PSE on is bliss! Anyone waiting for a new 991.2 is in for a real treat.
(Sorry for the crappy iPhone picks).
Beautiful car! I really like how your color combo came together. It's not a combo I'd have thought of, and it really is striking (in a good way). I really like the targas this generation, and the turbos seem like they'd complete the package and be a perfect fit for the car. I get a kick out of your comments on the kids
I miss a convertible but didn't want a full cabriolet. My wife really hates their look or I'd have seriously contemplated one. She's definitely in the minority there - I think most everyone agrees they are great looking.
08-19-2016, 09:05 PM
#1272
Burning Brakes
I was looking for something a little more conservative and classic as the Targa will be my daily driver. I know some like to spec their 911 to look more sporty and aggressive, but I already have a more aggressive looking car for the track.
08-19-2016, 09:27 PM
#1273
Intermediate
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
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@KenTO
Beaty of a car! Love the red top as well... very nicely done.
Question: The side, lower lip of your car is painted the same as your body color instead of the default black. Was that an option I missed? Looks really nice!
I just received my Targa last week and the car is amazing!
Question: The side, lower lip of your car is painted the same as your body color instead of the default black. Was that an option I missed? Looks really nice!
08-19-2016, 10:47 PM
#1274
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by gyangage
@KenTOBeaty of a car! Love the red top as well... very nicely done.
Question: The side, lower lip of your car is painted the same as your body color instead of the default black. Was that an option I missed? Looks really nice!
Question: The side, lower lip of your car is painted the same as your body color instead of the default black. Was that an option I missed? Looks really nice!
08-19-2016, 11:29 PM
#1275
Burning Brakes
That is correct, I think it is available with all versions. If you do the painted side skirts you should do the sports design mirrors as well, because it eliminates the lower black portion, they are painted completely in body color. The only downside is you cannot have power folding mirrors.