bigs

I will give it my best shot to explain. Disclaimer: I am a relatively new moderator.

1. First of all, it is indeed true that moderator's are not paid. My compensation for the time I spend moderating Rennlist is exactly zero dollars. I don't know how many total mods there are - maybe a dozen or so. We all have day jobs and/or lives outside of Rennlist that occupy much of our time. It is simply impossible with the resources we have to monitor thousands of posts on hundreds of threads every day. Just can't be done. As a result, we mods are pretty much dependent on Rennlisters to report inappropriate posts of any kind.

Not all reported posts are deleted. Sometimes posts are reported that the mods just don't feel are all that bad. In all honesty, there are a few reported posts that seem to be the equivalent of reporting jay-walking to the police.

Along those lines, I have also learned that it's simply humanly impossible to please everyone. It's like calling ***** and strikes in baseball.

2. I have heard some Rennlisters comment that, "If you don't get paid, why are you even moderating? Just walk away from it." Well, that would be like having no officials in a sporting event. Anarchy would soon reign. And all of the mods I've interacted with are good, decent, stand-up guys. They simply have a desire to keep Rennlist going and functioning well.

3. I don't even know the prerequisites to becoming a moderator. It's not an office that anyone in their right mind campaigns for. I was simply invited and accepted. Don't ask me, I don't know why either!

4. So... To the background behind temporarily deleting this thread. It makes sense to me that if sponsors have to pay for the privilege of posting on Rennlist - which they do - and are restricted somewhat in the number of posts they can make in a given time period - which they are (in an attempt not to "over-clutter" the website with massive numbers of sponsor ads) - then it is understandable that they will have concern if non-sponsor dealers or companies are allowed to post ads to their hearts' content without paying the same sponsor fees. I think it's also understandable that paying sponsors will have concern if non-sponsor entities are routinely and frequently linked in threads and posts. Most sponsors are realistic enough to know that 100% policing of every rule is not possible.

Rennlist rules state that only members are allowed to post items or vehicles for sale. In that way (and in other ways), members are shown the same courtesy for their membership fees, that sponsors are shown for their sponsorship fees. So, I would support Bob Rouleau in requesting that there are no links posted to non-sponsor dealerships.

And yes, there are indeed other similar threads in other forums. They will be dealt with just as this one has been. This one was not "singled out." It was just where the fire was burning hottest at the moment.

In fact, there are likely similar threads in other forums that we mods aren't even aware of at this point in time. We just don't have the time to research every thread and every post every day. Just doing the best we can.

STG

If a multi-billion $$ company can get away with and finds volunteers to work their forums more to them. The moderator position is voluntary from my understanding so the lack of pay shouldn't even be discussed. Has no bearing on this issue, nor do I care. I don't get paid to participate here either and I provide content that makes RL $$, but I don't bring that up. I actually even voluntarily pay a membership fee. Once again, my choice. Only think I take away from it is I'M IN THE WRONG LINE OF WORK. I wish I could get people to work for me for free rather than pay through the nose like I do. Rennlist gets all these sponsor $$, free content, and a blank cookie cutter forum they use over and over and they don't pay?? They're smarter than I am.


I just ask that all those "breaking the link" rules get dealt with individually. Don't punish a whole thread because of it. That way, someone can sabotage a thread just by posting link in it.

Also, don't single us out and hold other threads under the same microscope.

Bob R told me no links. I get it. I clarified that any picture, VIN #, where the car is for sale, miles, price, and comments are fine. If the picture posted has a dealers info in it, so be it. JUST NO DIRECT LINKS.

That's what I plan to do.

Thanks!

Tangerine

For what it's worth, we have our own community (in games) and we don't pay the mods for a few reasons, mainly being that if someone wants to be a mod without being paid it shows a ton of love and passion for the community. We make sure people are around for a long time and have the right attitude before even offering them to be mods. People who ask to become mods are usually never allowed to be mods.

Being a mod when not paid is thankless most of the time, since you will only make MORE enemies than when you were not a mod. We prepare our own mods for this, but also let them know we appreciate them and hopefully they choose to remain mods.

000

^ Thank you (!) for your service to Rennlist, which is all of us. All very reasonable...except for the idea that individuals are restricted in the links they can post to "hot" Porsches for sale (that they have no financial interest in), or that they should have to check some list (is there one?) to see if said cool Porsche for sale happens to be on a Rennlist sponsor's lot. In practice, that's so impractical that no one will do it.

All of which gets down to a fundamental and/or existential question for Rennlist: Who does Rennlist wish to serve first—those who generate its content, or its sponsors? There is no way to serve those masters equally. Only one of them will ensure longterm viability, while putting the other first will eventually lead to no platform to sell. In other words, if you put advertisers first, you aren't serving the advertisers, either. Been in the editorial game for a long time, and this is bedrock.

As a Rennlist sponsor who doesn't sell cars, I view the restrictions made to serve one or more car dealers as antithetical to the hobby and to ROI from our sponsorship. If I sold parts for Porsches, I'd feel the same way: You want more people buying cool used Porsches, and then deciding to stick around Rennlist for the community. If I did sell Porsches, I'd hope I have a long enough view to realize that even the sales I don't get because of HFS are still creating new potential customers for me in the longer term. A bigger, more enthusiastic car community is better than a smaller, less enthusiastic one.

Again, thank you for your work to moderate the forums here at Rennlist. It is too often a thankless task.

Sincerely,

Pete Stout, Editor
000 Magazine
Rennlist Premium Site Sponsor

STG

So any contributors here.

PLEASE POST NO DIRECT LINKS!!!

Only pictures and the format we've always used!!

Thanks

spiderv6

I wouldn't want to be a mod even if you DID pay me. Who the heck would want to try and keep the peace in Rennlist??!

For those that are mods, thank you.

So we can post ads that have a dealer name but not post the link to the same site? Really? C'mon........this is just silly games. None of us are dumb.

STG

Well said Stout ...

Lack of contributors and good content loses ability to get any sponsor $$$'s. Something to think about. The sponsors will bolt pretty quickly if Rennlisters do. Sponsors drop out, all their content gets dumped too. Becomes a barren wasteland here.

stout

If that's the rule, then I guess it's "reasonable."

I do, however, think it sets up a hassle factor for the mods and makes HFS less useful to very little benefit.

STG

Agreed.

That's why I told Bob R what I did above. The communication with him has been literally 3 PM's when more needs to be discussed and clarified. Took one message of mine and didn't follow up for 3+ days and somehow took it as a conclusion.

stout

And this is why I nominated STG for a Lifetime Membership as a thank you for the countless Rennlisters he's helped find 991.1s and (gasp!) 991.2s, thereby building the community.

I think there are a lot of Rennlisters looking at this thread thinking STG didn't get a very nice or very fair shake. Even if it only looks like STG got singled out because the mods haven't gotten around to enforcing this policy on other threads and forums, the damage was done...and the emotional effect was understandable, clear, and seriously uncool. And not just for STG. The message to all of us was simple: Your contributions can disappear at any time at the whim of a single moderator or sponsor. Of course, we are guests here and so that is ultimately true...but projecting that sort of instability to members and users is a baaaaaaaad deal.

9ElevenGTS

What if we do in-direct links? For example, have a Google sheets document with the link there (even though it may die) and just cite the appropriate line number. You can even make it pretty explicit in terms of Data organization - have columns for VIN, MSRP, miles, Listing price, and link. Granted, it's a bit of overhead, but it would give a centralized, in-direct linked source that could be maintained my the community.

Boulder Mike

What a relief. Just to confirm, can I now delete my twitter account that I set up over the weekend solely for HFS?

STG

Stout, the mods are hoping I get a Lifetime Ban I think! Nice post by the way too.

As much as we should appreciate the moderators service, they should appreciate the follow members as well. Without them there is nothing to moderate and no sponsors.

I am an entrepreneur ... one frustrating thing I always encounter with employees is getting them to realize the value of a customer. Without them, they don't have a job and we can't exist. Yet, many still don't see the big picture. They figure if it's a slow day, all the better. Less work for me, and I'm still getting paid.

Things I've tried stressing here on RL about this being a business that can't exist without content. One moderator told me the sponsors keep the lights on. Although there is some truth to that, the sponsors won't stick around if sponsorships for their companies don't have a good financial return. Without active users and content, the sponsorships make very little sense to do. Something to think about ...

I'm really exhausted with this. The only people who appreciate HFS are the RL members. You'd think Internet Brands would appreciate the nearly 2,000,000 clicks to their website, but it doesn't seem like it. That's too bad.

After all, I'm a volunteer too ... I'm sick of people
"not getting it".

Thinc2

Recommend you post this in the very first post of this thread.

Also - thanks to this thread for teaching me so much about these cars and the various options. I searched and searched for many months - just this weekend I pulled the trigger and placed an order for a new 991.2. But I sure test drove a lot of 991.1's and investigated a lot of cars on the journey. Not sure it would have happened without this thread - so thank you!

STG

One the the Hurricane TWIN builds pops up!! $170K MSRP and under 10K miles for $95K

X51 POWERKIT and much more.

Back where they came from too! At Byers in OH.

If you're internet saavy, just type the website listed in the black box. I can't give you a link! You found HFS on Rennlist, I found you the car, you do the rest.

Is Byers a sponsor?? Who knows. Doesn't matter. No direct link





Google the VIN # and the listing will pop up in your search!!! (Hint - copy and paste). No link needed here Don't be lazy. A hot buy awaits you.

VIN: WP0AB2A93DS121705

Mileage: 9,843
MSRP: $169,500
Asking: $94,900

A HFS certified HOT BUY