No More Manual Gear Box for The 911?
11-29-2013, 11:19 AM
#436
Three Wheelin'
If you ever get the opportunity to drive an antique with a manual, find a long multi brake point corner like turn 17 at Sebring and play with the clutch slip as you go down the gears. In a rwd car with the wheels turned, and depending on the overrun of the LSD the rear end will move around. You can make fine adjustments without upsetting the car. As I said its fun, you may even enjoy it. 
Damn shame we can't meet up over a beer to discuss this one ! As it's almost impossible to discuss and get all intricaties of this accross on a written forum.
I'm thinking back to my motorcycling days, where a rear brake would be used to keep the bike from getting to much on his nose, to keep it more stable. Gonna try in my daily driver (manual transmission Merc C-class and bmw 3-series diesel haha) if engine braking only sets the car on its nose like regular brake braking, or pulls the rear axle down in its suspension more like on a bike. Cool, you are actually the first one that comes with a very specific case that can actually challenge my belief there is no way the MT can be beneficial over a PDK, however specific that case might be.
Again, I'm not there yet to believe you, but it is intriguing !
Maybe, and hopefully, Chuck has more ammo than I have to set you straight at this point in time :-)
Makes me also wonder now about the PDK-S from the GT3. By pulling both paddles, do you simply get declutched and clutched, like digitally, 0 or 1 ? Or can you really control clutch engagement, clutch slip by "how much" you pull the paddles ?
11-29-2013, 11:47 AM
#437
11-29-2013, 11:52 AM
#438
Intermediate
Join Date: Apr 2004
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I agree. I have been a loyal Porsche fanatic for most of my adult life, road driving and tracking. My oldest Porsche a 1959 356 , most contemporary a 997/GT3....and just about everything in between. I don't think I'm not alone in my position, but if Porsche were to discontinue a MT in the 911 I believe it would seriously put in question their understanding of what motivates their "loyal" base. I don't declare to be the end all to what drives sports car enthusiasts, but the last couple of dozen purchases by people I know here in the states that bought late model 911's wouldn't even consider the PDK, even with the understanding of the performance benefits. I'm hoping they don't believe their own BS, or become just another BMW or Ferrari. It will spell the beginning of the end of Driving in it's Finest Form, at least for me.
11-29-2013, 11:56 AM
#439
Nordschleife Master
I agree. I have been a loyal Porsche fanatic for most of my adult life, road driving and tracking. My oldest Porsche a 1959 356 , most contemporary a 997/GT3....and just about everything in between. I don't think I'm not alone in my position, but if Porsche were to discontinue a MT in the 911 I believe it would seriously put in question their understanding of what motivates their "loyal" base. I don't declare to be the end all to what drives sports car enthusiasts, but the last couple of dozen purchases by people I know here in the states that bought late model 911's wouldn't even consider the PDK, even with the understanding of the performance benefits. I'm hoping they don't believe their own BS, or become just another BMW or Ferrari. It will spell the beginning of the end of Driving in it's Finest Form, at least for me.
11-29-2013, 11:59 AM
#440
11-29-2013, 12:17 PM
#441
Drifting
Actually, quite a bit more than a few thousand if you get PDK with SC. PDK is $4,080 alone and SC is another $2,370 with the PDK. That is about $6,500 more. Porsche is laughing all the way to the bank on those PDK sales. Granted some people get SC with the manual, but I think SC with the manual is only about $1,700.
11-29-2013, 12:20 PM
#442
Drifting
I agree. I have been a loyal Porsche fanatic for most of my adult life, road driving and tracking. My oldest Porsche a 1959 356 , most contemporary a 997/GT3....and just about everything in between. I don't think I'm not alone in my position, but if Porsche were to discontinue a MT in the 911 I believe it would seriously put in question their understanding of what motivates their "loyal" base. I don't declare to be the end all to what drives sports car enthusiasts, but the last couple of dozen purchases by people I know here in the states that bought late model 911's wouldn't even consider the PDK, even with the understanding of the performance benefits. I'm hoping they don't believe their own BS, or become just another BMW or Ferrari. It will spell the beginning of the end of Driving in it's Finest Form, at least for me.
11-29-2013, 12:21 PM
#443
Actually, quite a bit more than a few thousand if you get PDK with SC. PDK is $4,080 alone and SC is another $2,370 with the PDK. That is about $6,500 more. Porsche is laughing all the way to the bank on those PDK sales. Granted some people get SC with the manual, but I think SC with the manual is only about $1,700.
11-29-2013, 12:23 PM
#444
They thought that when they started with the 928, as well - nearly all of the 928s exported to the US were Tiptronic. How'd that work for Porsche?
11-29-2013, 12:26 PM
#445
Toll!
11-29-2013, 12:42 PM
#446
Drifting
Eh, I like the MT. Have always had one prior to the 991, but hey I also love new technology so...it's time to move forward for me rather than remain stuck int the past. Only speaking for myself; live & let live if anyone wishes to remain in the 80s. The 80s were cool.
11-29-2013, 12:46 PM
#447
Drifting
I said the same thing earlier. The 928 obviously didn't work out too well for them, but sadly, I do think they have abandoned the sports car enthusiast, at least with the 991. They are looking to affluent buyers who want to be seen in a prestigious car when they go to the "club". They are not interested in changing gears, and most of them wouldn't know how.
11-29-2013, 12:57 PM
#448
F1 drivers on their way to the club. lol
But seriously, the F1 video really explains why PDK is such a key to 991 pure performance over an MT and why I moved away from MT after 40 years of driving MTs, including some of it on the track and years on the Autobahn.
11-29-2013, 01:11 PM
#449
Drifting
Naw. Not before you master manual shifting with these. Crawl, walk, run.
But seriously, the F1 video really explains why PDK is such a key to 991 pure performance over an MT and why I moved away from MT after 40 years of driving MTs, including some of it on the track and years on the Autobahn.
But seriously, the F1 video really explains why PDK is such a key to 991 pure performance over an MT and why I moved away from MT after 40 years of driving MTs, including some of it on the track and years on the Autobahn.
11-29-2013, 01:12 PM
#450
Aches and pains--oh my God brother. I hear and understand yah! If I had known I was going to live this long I might have abused my body less. 
Seriously though, I understand what you say about the MT. It was not an easy transition for me to give up that manual clutch. I still override the PDK on the fly all the time on downshifts. A computer will never be able to replicate my driving style on a mountain road in my lifetime I guess.
Forgive my sense of humor.
Seriously though, I understand what you say about the MT. It was not an easy transition for me to give up that manual clutch. I still override the PDK on the fly all the time on downshifts. A computer will never be able to replicate my driving style on a mountain road in my lifetime I guess.
Forgive my sense of humor.