We drive a 911 because we simply can’t afford a Ferrari
#18
I like my lil' 911. Kinda under the radar and fast enough for me. Also a nice GTish car for trips. I love Ferrari but am more than content to let others drive and post about them. Add to that is I got my 0-60, 0-100 kicks on sport bikes, so I got that out of my system. Of course my rat damaged 911 is in the shop for 6-12 months. Wonder what would happen if a rat chewed up a Ferrari's wiring.
#19
The guy has a superiority complex. While it's true that most of us will not buy a Ferrari, it does not mean we cannot afford it. A 911 is so much easier to live with, even the GT cars. How many Ferrari owners change their own oil? Not many.
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#20
Well...
I've had two Ferraris and now a 991.2 Carrera. Ferraris are an experience and and can be a PITA.
Expensive to operate, somewhat unreliable, impossible to modify. Most don't drive them much with the reason they " won't remain special". Translation is they are not reliable enough for daily driving. Ferrari owners put up with so much to have a Ferrari. Sorry after 20 years of ownership, would never have another.
Expensive to operate, somewhat unreliable, impossible to modify. Most don't drive them much with the reason they " won't remain special". Translation is they are not reliable enough for daily driving. Ferrari owners put up with so much to have a Ferrari. Sorry after 20 years of ownership, would never have another.
1. The new Ferrari's have pretty damn good build quality. It's not Porsche bullet proof but way better than 20 years ago. I've had zero issues with my 16 Cali T.
2. I modified my Cali T with Novitec's piggy back system, picked up 115 HP and it only cost $4k with no headaches. I find that amazing.
3. I drive the hell out of all 3 cars. Only real difference is the Ferrari is more of an "experience" in terms of onlookers, people randomly yelling at you or giving you a thumbs up while driving -- just a different deal.
Love both brands and both cars. Different deal and different feel though. Fun to be able to own and drive the (bleep) out of both.
If the last one you owned was a 355, you should come back and try again. The new gen Ferraris are not that shabby. LOL.
#23
Sounds like your F-cars were a few gen's old. I own a California T and a pair of .2 911's. Here's some counterpoints:
1. The new Ferrari's have pretty damn good build quality. It's not Porsche bullet proof but way better than 20 years ago. I've had zero issues with my 16 Cali T.
2. I modified my Cali T with Novitec's piggy back system, picked up 115 HP and it only cost $4k with no headaches. I find that amazing.
3. I drive the hell out of all 3 cars. Only real difference is the Ferrari is more of an "experience" in terms of onlookers, people randomly yelling at you or giving you a thumbs up while driving -- just a different deal.
Love both brands and both cars. Different deal and different feel though. Fun to be able to own and drive the (bleep) out of both.
If the last one you owned was a 355, you should come back and try again. The new gen Ferraris are not that shabby. LOL.
1. The new Ferrari's have pretty damn good build quality. It's not Porsche bullet proof but way better than 20 years ago. I've had zero issues with my 16 Cali T.
2. I modified my Cali T with Novitec's piggy back system, picked up 115 HP and it only cost $4k with no headaches. I find that amazing.
3. I drive the hell out of all 3 cars. Only real difference is the Ferrari is more of an "experience" in terms of onlookers, people randomly yelling at you or giving you a thumbs up while driving -- just a different deal.
Love both brands and both cars. Different deal and different feel though. Fun to be able to own and drive the (bleep) out of both.
If the last one you owned was a 355, you should come back and try again. The new gen Ferraris are not that shabby. LOL.
How many miles on your ‘16 T? I enjoy the fact the 911 is a more low profile car than an exotic as I am a low profile guy. Not looking for looks or random people showing me any interest. Appreciate your insight and the fact you drive them. Which would you choose to drive hard, beat on, track, maintain, take on a road trip etc.? Ferrari’s are works of art to me. Beautiful. I am just partial to German over Italian.
#24
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#26
14k miles on my 911, drive it every day, no issues except for picking up punctures, found my third one today, left front (other two were rear).
For me, justifying the expense of an exotic, when my 911 provides a close enough experience, plus everyday use and reliability, doesn't make sense.
If I were to go further than my C4S, there are always the Porsche Turbo models.
Do what makes you happy.
For me, justifying the expense of an exotic, when my 911 provides a close enough experience, plus everyday use and reliability, doesn't make sense.
If I were to go further than my C4S, there are always the Porsche Turbo models.
Do what makes you happy.
#27
The fact that I can buy a manual transmission, and for me the 911 body styling was polarizing to me as a child, is why I have one. I do love Ferrari’s but would not own one, for now, because of the lack of a manual. Maybe as I get older, a flappy paddle transmission will be ok, but not for now. I subscribe to this guy’s channel. I like him. Regular guy that enjoys cars and working on them.
#29
Here’s an okd post of mine from FChat..
Before reading my comments below, be mindful that these are MY opinions based upon MY perspective. I suspect they will not agree with those of many of you. I’m not looking to start a debate. I fully respect your opinion as I hope you will mine. I just want to record my views so that someone searching in the future can find them and perhaps benefit from them.
First, a bit about myself. I graduated as a Mechanical Engineer in 1973 and went to work for the Big Yellow Tractor Co. in Peoria, Illinois. During my 36-year career, I worked in Vehicle Design, Vehicle Development, Machine Marketing & Sales, Product Support, Service Engineering and Dealer / Customer Training. I was lucky enough to experience firsthand the entire life cycle of machines from market-need to conception through development and use by the customer. I lived with machines under development with customers in the field. My job was to identify what didn’t function correctly and work with the designer to correct these problems before production. In service, I’d indentify problems that cropped up after development and work with engineering to find solutions. I will not profess to be THE expert in all of these areas, but I have a very thorough understanding of what it takes for an organization to design, manufacture and support some of the most complex systems and machines tasked to work in the harshest applications in the world.
As a mechanical engineer, I have a keen interest in mechanical devices and cars in particular. It’s only natural. I appreciate the well thoughtout designs that perform their function effectively. From the beginning, I felt that the German engineering prowess was second to none when it came to automobiles. In recent years, the Japanese have in many ways matched or bettered them. I have been pleased to own many Porsches, Audi’s, and BMW’s over the years. While living in Europe, I probably logged 15,000 miles on the Autobahn. This only reinforced my opinion of German engineering. I have enjoyed track days from the Nurburgring to Road America in various Porsches. No better way to experience what the designer had in mind when he laid out his design.
Since I retired, I have begun to work on my “bucket list”. One of the top items was to own and drive a Ferrari. After considerable research, much of it on this forum, I settled on the F430. One year ago I purchased a 2006 F430 F1 with 2900 miles on the clock. I went into this with my eyes wide open. I expected the running costs to be higher than on my Porsches. But with expected mileage each year to be under 5,000 miles, it would be manageable.
I had the Ferrari for one year, drove 4400 miles. I did four track days with it. As there is no dealer in Peoria, I took the car the to Chicago for service. I made 3 x 300 mile roundtrips to the dealer in one year. That's 20% of my miles! As a mechanical engineer, I found the Ferrari to be under-engineered and of poor quality in a number of areas.
Just before I traded the car, I had to replace the muffler, $2200 + my own labor. Have you had a look at the exhaust brackets that secure the exhaust at the rear of the transaxle? They look like a failed high school welding class project. As a former structural engineer these things are a joke, particularly at $150 a pop. I went through four in my year of ownership. Down the road, the headers are bound to fail because Ferrari made no allowance for expansion and contraction in the exhaust system. By 10,000 miles the headers WILL fail. This seems to apply to the 348, 355, 360, 430, and now the 458. Apparently not enough time for Ferrari to properly design and develop an exhaust system.
Let’s talk about the sticky gooey mess that your back interior bits will become after a few years exposed to high summer temperatures. How many years has this problem been going on? Can you imagine the look of abject horror on the face of Luca di Montezemolo if he got any of this mess on the cuffs of his fine Italian suit coat? Heads would roll. But it’s never going to happen because he never sets foot in anything other than a new car or one of the classics finely restored.
How many accounts have you read on FChat of cars having ECU issues, stalling, limping home, or having to have an electrical reboot? Quite a few. This practically never happens with a Porsche. I've been driving them since 1975 and have had very few failures of any kind.
At the end of the day, driving my Ferrari was like dating a smoking hot, redheaded super model. Fun and exciting most of the time, but she could be "high maintenance" and make unreasonable demands:
"You’re NOT taking me THERE!"
"I've done 7000 miles and I WANT a new muffler. And if you complain about it, I'll demand new headers to!"
"Not now. I've got a headache (electrical issues)".
"I don't want just any parts, I want Ferrari parts and I don't care how much they cost you! You owe it to me".
I could go on, but I think you get the picture. My disappointment wasn’t due to cost. I can easily afford to “support” a Ferrari. I just found it extremely frustrating to have to deal with an under engineered product. It was doubly aggravating that the nearest dealer was a 300-mile roundtrip from my home. Owning a Ferrari was on my "bucket list". Now I've done it and crossed it off the list. So I'm back in a Porsche, a car that feels as if it were machined from a single steel forging. I never had that feeling with the Ferrari. But I must say, the Ferrari had beautiful leather and a sound that can't be beat. Here's wishing you the best as you journey through life with your Ferrari.
As you might expect, these thoughts didn’t go down well with many pos(t)ers on the forum. But I did get a thumbs up from Jim Glickenhaus.
First, a bit about myself. I graduated as a Mechanical Engineer in 1973 and went to work for the Big Yellow Tractor Co. in Peoria, Illinois. During my 36-year career, I worked in Vehicle Design, Vehicle Development, Machine Marketing & Sales, Product Support, Service Engineering and Dealer / Customer Training. I was lucky enough to experience firsthand the entire life cycle of machines from market-need to conception through development and use by the customer. I lived with machines under development with customers in the field. My job was to identify what didn’t function correctly and work with the designer to correct these problems before production. In service, I’d indentify problems that cropped up after development and work with engineering to find solutions. I will not profess to be THE expert in all of these areas, but I have a very thorough understanding of what it takes for an organization to design, manufacture and support some of the most complex systems and machines tasked to work in the harshest applications in the world.
As a mechanical engineer, I have a keen interest in mechanical devices and cars in particular. It’s only natural. I appreciate the well thoughtout designs that perform their function effectively. From the beginning, I felt that the German engineering prowess was second to none when it came to automobiles. In recent years, the Japanese have in many ways matched or bettered them. I have been pleased to own many Porsches, Audi’s, and BMW’s over the years. While living in Europe, I probably logged 15,000 miles on the Autobahn. This only reinforced my opinion of German engineering. I have enjoyed track days from the Nurburgring to Road America in various Porsches. No better way to experience what the designer had in mind when he laid out his design.
Since I retired, I have begun to work on my “bucket list”. One of the top items was to own and drive a Ferrari. After considerable research, much of it on this forum, I settled on the F430. One year ago I purchased a 2006 F430 F1 with 2900 miles on the clock. I went into this with my eyes wide open. I expected the running costs to be higher than on my Porsches. But with expected mileage each year to be under 5,000 miles, it would be manageable.
I had the Ferrari for one year, drove 4400 miles. I did four track days with it. As there is no dealer in Peoria, I took the car the to Chicago for service. I made 3 x 300 mile roundtrips to the dealer in one year. That's 20% of my miles! As a mechanical engineer, I found the Ferrari to be under-engineered and of poor quality in a number of areas.
Just before I traded the car, I had to replace the muffler, $2200 + my own labor. Have you had a look at the exhaust brackets that secure the exhaust at the rear of the transaxle? They look like a failed high school welding class project. As a former structural engineer these things are a joke, particularly at $150 a pop. I went through four in my year of ownership. Down the road, the headers are bound to fail because Ferrari made no allowance for expansion and contraction in the exhaust system. By 10,000 miles the headers WILL fail. This seems to apply to the 348, 355, 360, 430, and now the 458. Apparently not enough time for Ferrari to properly design and develop an exhaust system.
Let’s talk about the sticky gooey mess that your back interior bits will become after a few years exposed to high summer temperatures. How many years has this problem been going on? Can you imagine the look of abject horror on the face of Luca di Montezemolo if he got any of this mess on the cuffs of his fine Italian suit coat? Heads would roll. But it’s never going to happen because he never sets foot in anything other than a new car or one of the classics finely restored.
How many accounts have you read on FChat of cars having ECU issues, stalling, limping home, or having to have an electrical reboot? Quite a few. This practically never happens with a Porsche. I've been driving them since 1975 and have had very few failures of any kind.
At the end of the day, driving my Ferrari was like dating a smoking hot, redheaded super model. Fun and exciting most of the time, but she could be "high maintenance" and make unreasonable demands:
"You’re NOT taking me THERE!"
"I've done 7000 miles and I WANT a new muffler. And if you complain about it, I'll demand new headers to!"
"Not now. I've got a headache (electrical issues)".
"I don't want just any parts, I want Ferrari parts and I don't care how much they cost you! You owe it to me".
I could go on, but I think you get the picture. My disappointment wasn’t due to cost. I can easily afford to “support” a Ferrari. I just found it extremely frustrating to have to deal with an under engineered product. It was doubly aggravating that the nearest dealer was a 300-mile roundtrip from my home. Owning a Ferrari was on my "bucket list". Now I've done it and crossed it off the list. So I'm back in a Porsche, a car that feels as if it were machined from a single steel forging. I never had that feeling with the Ferrari. But I must say, the Ferrari had beautiful leather and a sound that can't be beat. Here's wishing you the best as you journey through life with your Ferrari.
As you might expect, these thoughts didn’t go down well with many pos(t)ers on the forum. But I did get a thumbs up from Jim Glickenhaus.
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