GT2 bucket in 991.2
11-12-2019 | 06:55 AM
#46
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I thought about it. But I'm not EE so I would try to steer away from doing any hard wire alternation.
11-12-2019 | 06:56 AM
#47
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I will check, however I believe my mechanic moved the electric module from under my OEM passenger seat and moved it to these seats. That apparently resolved the issue. For some reason that was not necessary on the drivers seat. I will ask him this week , however I know that he did move the electronics from the factory seats to the GT2 Bucket Seats. When I want to put the OEM seats back in, he would have to move the electronics back . The Inserts were from Kim at P1Designs , who did an amazing job.
11-12-2019 | 11:28 AM
#48
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From: ^ The Bay Bridge
We know:
- US pass seats have a buckle with an additional wire/plug
- The car throws an airbag light if that isn't accounted for
- That wire/plug lets the car know something is accounted for, and is wired to the buckle, not the seat
- Does the second US pass buckle wire/plug have to do with pass occupancy? Makes sense that the system would assume there is a driver when the car is started/operated; passenger is a different matter.
- What's the first wire/plug for? Seatbelt light only?
- Is the second US pass buckle wire/plug in addition to an occupancy sensor for pass airbag(s) in the US seat?
- Is there an occupancy sensor in US seats? Is there an occupancy sensor in Euro seats? (If none in a RoW seat, do all or some pass airbags fire in the event of an accident whether or not someone is there?)
- How many pins in the SEAT harness plug of a US 4WSS+? How many pins after recline motor and heating element are accounted for?
- How many pins in the SEAT harness plug of a RoW folding bucket? How many pins after heating element are accounted for, if seat has one (all 991 apparently do)?
- Do RoW cars have the overhead airbag status monitor? I've never checked for this, and could that be what the US buckle's second wire/plug is all about?
- If the setups in this thread have a passenger in and buckled up next to the driver, what does the overhead airbag indicator say?
11-12-2019 | 11:47 AM
#49
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I wish I had taken some pictures. But there is definitely no occupancy sensor on the RoW bucket passenger side. The wiring on the passenger side is so simple, I'm surprised there are enough wires to support the side airbags. The drivers side RoW seats have like 5x the wires (and an additional control box). This is interesting because on my US 18-way seats there are about 2x the wires/boxes on the passenger side vs the drivers side (probably to support the occupancy sensor on the passenger side).
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marinb (11-13-2019)
11-14-2019 | 02:28 AM
#52
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11-14-2019 | 08:28 PM
#53
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From: ^ The Bay Bridge
However, I may be able to provide images of a set of folding buckets out of the car, and dig into what their wiring looks like. Maybe a comparison of the harnesses/plugs from Euro GT2 seats and US 4WSS+ out of the car would help this narrative?
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jimmymoO (11-14-2019)
11-16-2019 | 04:56 PM
#54
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@stout confirmed with passenger in buckle plugged in, the overhead passenger airbag off light is on. So it looks like the passenger airbag is not functional even though I don't have airbag errors/light on the dash. This is a bit concerning to me as it would seem the airbag is not activated even if the passenger is present.
Another reference provided by Marinb: https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...cy-sensor.html
Another reference provided by Marinb: https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...cy-sensor.html
11-16-2019 | 05:12 PM
#55
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From: ^ The Bay Bridge
@stout confirmed with passenger in buckle plugged in, the overhead passenger airbag off light is on. So it looks like the passenger airbag is not functional even though I don't have airbag errors/light on the dash. This is a bit concerning to me as it would seem the airbag is not activated even if the passenger is present.
Another reference provided by Marinb: https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...cy-sensor.html
Another reference provided by Marinb: https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...cy-sensor.html
What I don't understand is why RoW cars don't have occupancy sensors...does that mean they fire the pass-side airbags no matter what? Or only if the seatbelt is engaged? (The latter seems perilous to me, as I imagine there are RoW humans who fail to buckle up from time to time, and a carmaker would still want to protect them with airbags...right?)
11-16-2019 | 05:43 PM
#56
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From: ^ The Bay Bridge
From that other thread:
Which leads me to wonder, since we are trying to mount a 997 seat that was sold in the US in 997.2 cars (and the 991 p/n set I have the option of using has been bolted into a 997 with no problem), whether the sensor/rails/etc can be obtained from a US 997 folding bucket...as well as how much that would cost and then...the clincher...would the system then be happy? With no fault codes, airbag error lights, and the overhead light noting that the airbag is on when a passenger is in place? Not ready to give up on this yet, as I have driven a RoW 991 with these seats and it was wonderful...
As an update to the thread or to enlighten those brave enough to use the search feature, below is summary of what I've found.
After much traversing through Porsche PET part numbers and diagrams, it appears that the occupancy sensor cannot be fitted (feasibly and/or seamlessly) to the lightweight buckets. Doh!!!
What I've learned:
The occupancy control unit is not a stand alone item of the occupancy detection system; originally I thought it was proximity sensor of sorts. Even though the control unit doesn't employ the use of a seat mat embedded in the cushions like many cars, it does use a pressure/weight contact to detect the pressense of a passenger.
The control unit accomplishes this by communicating with 4 inputs that sit between the seat rails and the adapter plate (enables seat to be bolted to rails). Each of the 4 inputs are several inches long and are about a half inch tall (almost looks like a rectangular magnet) and are located at each of the 4 corners of the seat. They are cleverly sandwiched in such a way that they recognize the weight of the occupant.
On the lightweight buckets, the adapter plates bolt directly to the seat rail; therein lies the rub. No space for the meat (pressure sensor) between two pieces of bread (rail & adapter plate).
While it may be possible to order the adapter plate from the folding buckets (which account for the sensors), that would come with its own set of parrels, 1) may not mate with lightweight seat mounts, 2) increased height, 3) infeasibility begins to mount. The scary unknown, even if you get all the parts mated, will it work - as in, will the car know when to deploy the airbag and when not.
That was enough for me to close the books on this experiment. To the dealer I go to disable:
From what I understand the PIWIS Settings are:
PIWIS main menu --> Select POSIP --> Select CODING --> Scroll down list and update the following entries:
Below is the underside of a folding bucket with parts of importance highlighted (base photo credit to mikymu)
Attachment 1235551
After much traversing through Porsche PET part numbers and diagrams, it appears that the occupancy sensor cannot be fitted (feasibly and/or seamlessly) to the lightweight buckets. Doh!!!
What I've learned:
The occupancy control unit is not a stand alone item of the occupancy detection system; originally I thought it was proximity sensor of sorts. Even though the control unit doesn't employ the use of a seat mat embedded in the cushions like many cars, it does use a pressure/weight contact to detect the pressense of a passenger.
The control unit accomplishes this by communicating with 4 inputs that sit between the seat rails and the adapter plate (enables seat to be bolted to rails). Each of the 4 inputs are several inches long and are about a half inch tall (almost looks like a rectangular magnet) and are located at each of the 4 corners of the seat. They are cleverly sandwiched in such a way that they recognize the weight of the occupant.
On the lightweight buckets, the adapter plates bolt directly to the seat rail; therein lies the rub. No space for the meat (pressure sensor) between two pieces of bread (rail & adapter plate).
While it may be possible to order the adapter plate from the folding buckets (which account for the sensors), that would come with its own set of parrels, 1) may not mate with lightweight seat mounts, 2) increased height, 3) infeasibility begins to mount. The scary unknown, even if you get all the parts mated, will it work - as in, will the car know when to deploy the airbag and when not.
That was enough for me to close the books on this experiment. To the dealer I go to disable:
From what I understand the PIWIS Settings are:
PIWIS main menu --> Select POSIP --> Select CODING --> Scroll down list and update the following entries:
- Driver Thorax Airbag : No
- Passenger Thorax Airbag : No
- AWS : No
Below is the underside of a folding bucket with parts of importance highlighted (base photo credit to mikymu)
Attachment 1235551
11-16-2019 | 06:13 PM
#57
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I agree. I just don't get how Euro is able to spec these seats w/o any issues. Buckle PN are all the same (according to Porsche Fremont Parts), assuming harness is the same. Perhaps it's really the coding?
Should've asked one of the line operators when I visited the factory a month ago!
Should've asked one of the line operators when I visited the factory a month ago!
11-17-2019 | 11:50 AM
#58
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Guys - I know I'm late on the chain of comments here, and perhaps this has been already discussed etc... but here's the link to the Carnewal site that sells the GT2 folding seats, complete with brackets, sider rails, buckles etc... for the 991.
http://carnewal.com/products/991/p91...-:-991-version
As Carnewal is stating they are a 991 version, I wonder if it is worthwhile shooting an email out to them for some clarification on the wiring - passenger airbag concerns.
P.s. email sent...
http://carnewal.com/products/991/p91...-:-991-version
As Carnewal is stating they are a 991 version, I wonder if it is worthwhile shooting an email out to them for some clarification on the wiring - passenger airbag concerns.
P.s. email sent...
11-17-2019 | 03:35 PM
#59
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Guys - I know I'm late on the chain of comments here, and perhaps this has been already discussed etc... but here's the link to the Carnewal site that sells the GT2 folding seats, complete with brackets, sider rails, buckles etc... for the 991.
http://carnewal.com/products/991/p91...-:-991-version
As Carnewal is stating they are a 991 version, I wonder if it is worthwhile shooting an email out to them for some clarification on the wiring - passenger airbag concerns.
P.s. email sent...
http://carnewal.com/products/991/p91...-:-991-version
As Carnewal is stating they are a 991 version, I wonder if it is worthwhile shooting an email out to them for some clarification on the wiring - passenger airbag concerns.
P.s. email sent...
I'm a bit frustrated and considering putting back the 4 ways sports seat. I'll put mine up for sell then.
11-17-2019 | 05:00 PM
#60
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From: ^ The Bay Bridge
Would be helpful if a fellow RLer with a RoW 981/982/991 with folding buckets could confirm two things:
- Is there a "Passenger Air Bag On/Off" indicator above interior rearview mirror, by the map lights, in RoW cars?
- Is there an occupancy sensor and its associated gear under the passenger seat? (Pics would be helpful.)