Ceramic coating worth it?
#121
Rennlist Member
#123
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I've seen lots of posts about the details of ceramic coatings, but I have a more basic question: Is it worth it to pay an installer $2K do do paint correction and a ceramic coating? My car is new and shiny. Is the correction/coating going to pop in a way that is more than just a marginal improvement, or it necessary to keep a like-new look? Just trying to figure out whether it's worth the spend. Thanks for any input you can offer.
#124
Burning Brakes
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
A question I often wondered about as well. I don’t think many have an answer for this as it only recently became the newest, must have product and this is one of many reasons I’d never use ceramic coating. Unevenness, blotchy finish etc is more than likely going to occur over time due to weather and other perils forcing one to have to remove the coating with likelyhood of damaging the clear coat underneath that was originally the purpose of installing the ceramic. I’m going to stick to tried and true old fashion methods.
It may help if you first understand technically how they bond/are applied, and how that differs from a wax/sealant.
A real paint coating consists of the active ingredient (the "coating") and transfer solvents. If a coating bottle has 30ml-50ml of liquid, there may be anywhere from 1'ish% to 90+% solids which will form the coating barrier. Did I mention how you're probably better off to think of a (legitimate) paint coating as a barrier? Yeah, do that. A carnauba wax forms an incredibly thin barrier in a similar fashion, except the durability is generally pretty minimal, it stains plastics (coatings can too!...but differently) and the chemical resistance is antiquated in terms of modern technology. Synthetic polymers ("sealants"), provide a huge boost in durability, chemical resistance and in many cases, ease of application over a carnauba wax. Sealants can actually form a healthy crosslink with the molecular structure of your clear coat where wax mostly just sits on top waiting for a warm breeze to scare it away causing you to have totally wasted your time applying that sweet sweet "'nuba" by hand(complete exaggeration but yeah, wax durability is nothing compared to synthetic polymers).
A legitimate paint coating is supposed to form an even stronger crosslink with the paint/PPF. The barrier is supposed to be stronger, more durable, more chemically resistant, provide a measure of scratch resistance (that's one slippery slope that we won't touch beyond this -in short, it's all relative; wax, sealant; "coating". Fair enough?). I say supposed to for all these wonderful things because a "coating" is not always, really a legitimate coating. Too, not everyone cash-grabbing those uneducated private car owners (fancy word for person who owns a vehicle thingy) coating jobs are actually doing a good job. How so? Well, how does your Porsche differ from a 2003 Kia? Ignore the fit and finish, the quality of the materials, the experience you get when having a service, the care of a professional life-long sales person, the performance and connection to the road and all that stuff owning a Porsche 991 gets you. HAVE YOU SEEN HOW CHEAP A 2003 KIA IS?? WHAT A DEAL! haha sorry. You likely get the idea though. Typically, you get what you pay for. In the detailing/paint protection service industry, there are a bazillion ways that corners can get cut in which you will simply never know (such as offering a coating "warranty" which hinges upon you returning once per year and paying $200-$500 per year for them to spray a weak silica treatment on the surface after a wash....just enough to get those Instagram-worth water bead shotz...oh, just read the fine print on the coating warranties available and get back with me
![ducking](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/icon107.gif)
What was I talking about before? Oh yeah, coating barriers and the what/why of them:
The really cheap DIY products you may find as some off-brand Amazon "coating" will very likely have a very low concentration of the solids. Some professional-only coatings will contain a very high % of coating solids. What does this matter? In general....yeah, so I can't speak in absolutes because, aside from only the Sith speaking in absolutes (ironic that OWK said that, right SW's fans??) there are countless differences that are possible and I don't know everything about every product...anyways, back to that thing I was saying:
In general, the fewer solids a bottle of coating contains, the cheaper it is to produce AND the easier it is to apply. Those are 2 things that are wildly important to the masses of car care DIY'ers. By the way, the quality of the raw materials used in production are also play a large role in the cost to produce a bottle of coating, but that is a whole different conversation (I'll just rely on the fact it's likely that many Rennlist members understand there are many factors that go into the retail cost of a product).
Product A is inexpensive, easy to apply and OMG!! THOSE WATER BEADS ARE TO DIE FOR! Exciting! What's not to love! (yes, a statement, not a serious question lol -think, jovial, not sarcastic
![hiha](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif)
![Cheers](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/beerchug.gif)
In short, that "coating" barrier is going to SUCK regardless of the unfounded and outlandish claims that all ya gotta do is spray some water on it to keep your paint perfect. It's going to be thin, less chemically resistant (IMHO, one of the top 2 or 3 characteristics that make a legitimate coating worth while or not) and have awful durability. But of course this, and MANY other factors, are not advertised as technical details a consumer should be aware of. Enter the critical thinker who has likely heard the snake-oil claims that cash-grabbers spout ad nauseam (no hate from me, just saying some folks spot snake oil tactics from a mile away):
Most are start ups looking to capture a piece of this or other profitable new fad by making statements they can’t backup and won’t be around when problems begin to surface. Ceramic coating finishes appear great, however, I don’t believe the brilliance and/or protection far outweighs traditional waxes, sealants or just routine cleaning. I do however agree thst it lasts longer yet one would be fooled to think they won’t be cleaning their vehicles nearly as often. Again, the ceramic finish will start to breakdown over time, more concerning, it’s more than likely going to occur in a very uneven fashion creating far more work to remove than anticipated. For those with a bit of foresight, investing in services/products to remove all of these coatings could be the next latest and greatest money maker. YMMV
A legitimate coating will create a very durable barrier that lasts far longer than a sealant and insanely longer than a wax. If the coating is a high caliber product, it will require many redundancies to ensure you don't have high spots or ugly areas because a high concentration of the solids means a low volume of the transfer solvents, which means -"GEEZ DUDE, THIS STUFF IS LIKE SYRUP TO APPLY!" Then the trainer laughs hardily and says, "get used to it newbie, the good stuff is a beast to deal with." The new installer wipes away that tear that gently rolled down his cheek, digs his elbow brace out of his bathroom drawer and then prepares himself for more punishment.
Those transfer solvents carry the suspended solids/active ingredient which are to create the coating barrier. The application method for a hand-applied coating results in the transfer solvents rising and the solids settling lower as they begin to crosslink with the clear coat/ PPF in the plasma-like membrane. Again, think of the good stuff as if you were to apply syrup to your paint. Sure, your paint would be super tasty for a mile or two, but it's not fun when one considers trying to level it out and make that paint silky smooth. This is where a quality product and qualified/honest technician will likely use 300 nice microfibers or so to refine that layer out nicely (okay, not 300 but a lot! Don't forget! IT'S SYRUP MAN! SYRUP!!)
Wow, this is tiring. If this sucks to read, too bad. Welcome to the internet. A lot of stuff sucks to read here.
Just like a paint job requires curing, a legitimate coating will. How long does it take to bake a cake? Well, how thick is the cake? How dense is the batter? Coatings are kinda the same. Sure, there is science-magic happening too. But let's keep this general and easy-to-digest. IR lamps are necessary for some coatings, others not. The "not" coatings? I'll pass. Been there, done that. Maybe the future will bring me a different opinion. But for meow, stick with the ones that require it (with THE focus on the professional you're dealing with).
Cure time is whatever. You wait whatever and BAM, you have a mac-daddy coating barrier on your car. Sweet! How long does it last? That's the some-made-up-dollar-value-question. But how does it wear out? If it's a poorly prepped surface, it will never crosslink and it actually will be removed over the course of one or more washes. "That" job? Yeah, shoulda just put wax on and save some money. A properly prepped surface and quality coating? Some inorganic coatings permanently bond with the substrate they're being applied to. In that case it's not technically how long does it last. A better question is how long does it look nice? If it's there but looks awful, what's the point? And now we're at the true crux of the matter! What's the point of a coating? It's simple:
A quality coating applied by a qualified professional, in general, will offer a car owner a surface that is easier to wash (chemical resistance IS the bee's knees like I said, isn't it?!), looks better over time (in a vacuum of a coating vs synthetic polymer vs wax) and protection that lasts significantly longer. At what cost? You still need to contribute to the good health of the surfaces of your car. No coating will authorize neglect regardless of what some video on "the gram" claims. Coatings reward people who already care properly for their car. Sure, on some technical level a coating could benefit the negligent. But that's not the purpose. It never has been. That's the ear-ticklers weaving their tale.
I wrote an article on 3 necessary pieces to a car owner being satisfied with a paint coating a few years back and I encourage you to read it: http://detaileddesignsautospa.com/pa...r-satisfation/
All jokes aside, I am passionate about this stuff. It's not a cash grab for me and it's not for many industry experts who were around before what we see as modern coatings in North America. (to be completely balanced and fair, there are newer professionals who are equally passionate about what they do and have a genuine desire to treat their clients to something wonderful. I do not mean to suggest it should be some good 'ol boy's club) What we see now has been around in Japan and South Korea for a few decades. The technology is not brand new.
I was going to reply to some other comments with information but I am now beat from typing this out and going to treat myself to some bourbon and then go to bed. Hope this helped you guys out at least a little and provided you with at least a chuckle. And if not a chuckle, maybe I caused air to be swiftly exited through your nostrils. (be honest, how many of you tested your rapid nostril air movement when I said that?
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
The following 3 users liked this post by Detailed Designs:
#125
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
$2k for paint correction and ceramic seems very steep to me.
I have OptiCoat Pro+ on my daily driver, but it's subjected to winter abuse. I haven't bothered doing it on the 911 as I only drive it on nice days and it looks good enough with a nice simple polish.
That said, ceramic coatings do certainly make the paint easier to clean!
I have OptiCoat Pro+ on my daily driver, but it's subjected to winter abuse. I haven't bothered doing it on the 911 as I only drive it on nice days and it looks good enough with a nice simple polish.
That said, ceramic coatings do certainly make the paint easier to clean!
#126
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Metro Atlanta, GA area
Posts: 7,282
Received 2,119 Likes
on
1,336 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
The gentleman in post 124 above (Jean-Claude w/ Detailed Designs Auto Spa) just did my car.
Have a look.
![](https://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/BigSwole1255/2012%20997%20Turbo%20S/BC070F70-BA18-4CD4-AFE5-D0E1C48C854D_zpsueaxhom5.jpg)
![](https://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/BigSwole1255/2012%20997%20Turbo%20S/EA1A2C2E-FD24-41C1-81BC-10838821760A_zpsgu4aqmfb.jpg)
Have a look.
![](https://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/BigSwole1255/2012%20997%20Turbo%20S/BC070F70-BA18-4CD4-AFE5-D0E1C48C854D_zpsueaxhom5.jpg)
![](https://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/BigSwole1255/2012%20997%20Turbo%20S/EA1A2C2E-FD24-41C1-81BC-10838821760A_zpsgu4aqmfb.jpg)
![](https://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/BigSwole1255/2012%20997%20Turbo%20S/AA326EBF-769E-4CAE-A58F-18448D9F2C11_zpshssth697.jpg)
The following users liked this post:
BudgetPlan1 (10-28-2019)
#127
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I have mine done with a special sherpa toungue wash each year and then I baste it in baby seal fat. The shine is immaculate.
The following users liked this post:
BOPE (09-17-2020)
#128
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Depends on what kind of car you have and how you are driving it. Previous owner ceramic coated my GT3. It is nice having the water beading properties that comes with a coating and how easy it is to clean. However, I would never put a ceramic coating on a weekend car, like my GT3. It is already on there so I will leave it and wait until it wears away and then probably go with something like Swissvax as a wax. Reason being is I don't mind spending the 2x a year waxing my car, especially when it is garaged and sees 2k miles a year. However, on a daily driver I would much prefer a ceramic coating. I drive 20k miles a year and having something that I can clean easier is nice.
#129
Burning Brakes
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
The gentleman in post 124 above (Jean-Claude w/ Detailed Designs Auto Spa) just did my car.
Have a look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6sN-SUqFZM
![](https://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/BigSwole1255/2012%20997%20Turbo%20S/BC070F70-BA18-4CD4-AFE5-D0E1C48C854D_zpsueaxhom5.jpg)
![](https://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/BigSwole1255/2012%20997%20Turbo%20S/EA1A2C2E-FD24-41C1-81BC-10838821760A_zpsgu4aqmfb.jpg)
![](https://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/BigSwole1255/2012%20997%20Turbo%20S/AA326EBF-769E-4CAE-A58F-18448D9F2C11_zpshssth697.jpg)
Have a look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6sN-SUqFZM
![](https://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/BigSwole1255/2012%20997%20Turbo%20S/BC070F70-BA18-4CD4-AFE5-D0E1C48C854D_zpsueaxhom5.jpg)
![](https://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/BigSwole1255/2012%20997%20Turbo%20S/EA1A2C2E-FD24-41C1-81BC-10838821760A_zpsgu4aqmfb.jpg)
![](https://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/BigSwole1255/2012%20997%20Turbo%20S/AA326EBF-769E-4CAE-A58F-18448D9F2C11_zpshssth697.jpg)
![hiha](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif)
Depends on what kind of car you have and how you are driving it. Previous owner ceramic coated my GT3. It is nice having the water beading properties that comes with a coating and how easy it is to clean. However, I would never put a ceramic coating on a weekend car, like my GT3. It is already on there so I will leave it and wait until it wears away and then probably go with something like Swissvax as a wax. Reason being is I don't mind spending the 2x a year waxing my car, especially when it is garaged and sees 2k miles a year. However, on a daily driver I would much prefer a ceramic coating. I drive 20k miles a year and having something that I can clean easier is nice.
The following users liked this post:
Big Swole (10-28-2019)
#130
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Metro Atlanta, GA area
Posts: 7,282
Received 2,119 Likes
on
1,336 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
LOL. Well, to eat his own man. I've grown a short beard recently for a contest at work to donate money to the local elementary school kids. Not my "LOOK" either, but it's for a good cause.
#131
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Other than the paint correction (which of course depends on existing condition) what's a ballpark cost to get a proper ceramic coat on a 911 in SoCal?
My car is not a daily driver, and is garaged/covered unless I'm away on a weekend road trip. I'm debating if it's worth paying for a coating. The main value to me would be ease of washing and not having to wax regularly. Is it really that much easier to wash? Does it help in any way to lessen the incidence of surface scratches? I'm careful when washing my car, but I'm also not someone who wants to spend an hour doing it. Also, I don't like taking my car to commercial "hand" car washes as you never know if they are using truly clean mitts and towels that won't scratch the paint. I'd like to hear more from people who have ceramic coatings about how washing goes as compared to with a regular wax job like carnauba.
I take weekend road trips up the coast or to the desert, and often don't have covered parking at the destination. I'd like to be able to cover my car at night, but don't want to get dirt on the inside of the cover and scratch the paint. After a day on the road, that means having to wash some road grime and dust off the car if I want to cover it. Would a good ceramic coating allow me to just hose down the car and towel dry it, without doing the mitt and bucket of soap or a spray detailer? If so, I'd be very interested in trying it.
My car is not a daily driver, and is garaged/covered unless I'm away on a weekend road trip. I'm debating if it's worth paying for a coating. The main value to me would be ease of washing and not having to wax regularly. Is it really that much easier to wash? Does it help in any way to lessen the incidence of surface scratches? I'm careful when washing my car, but I'm also not someone who wants to spend an hour doing it. Also, I don't like taking my car to commercial "hand" car washes as you never know if they are using truly clean mitts and towels that won't scratch the paint. I'd like to hear more from people who have ceramic coatings about how washing goes as compared to with a regular wax job like carnauba.
I take weekend road trips up the coast or to the desert, and often don't have covered parking at the destination. I'd like to be able to cover my car at night, but don't want to get dirt on the inside of the cover and scratch the paint. After a day on the road, that means having to wash some road grime and dust off the car if I want to cover it. Would a good ceramic coating allow me to just hose down the car and towel dry it, without doing the mitt and bucket of soap or a spray detailer? If so, I'd be very interested in trying it.
#132
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
@palladio - A good ceramic will run $1.5-2K. I had mine done two years ago with Qtechnic and have done self maintenance with the same manufacturers product detailer gave me as part of the deal once a year. Cleaning is about as easy at it comes, I actually run through touchless carwash (Oh the horror!) and wipe it down. Looks like freshly detailed every time. Absolutely worth it.
#133
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Chicagoland Area
Posts: 26,141
Likes: 0
Received 5,413 Likes
on
2,516 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I take weekend road trips up the coast or to the desert, and often don't have covered parking at the destination. I'd like to be able to cover my car at night, but don't want to get dirt on the inside of the cover and scratch the paint. After a day on the road, that means having to wash some road grime and dust off the car if I want to cover it. Would a good ceramic coating allow me to just hose down the car and towel dry it, without doing the mitt and bucket of soap or a spray detailer? If so, I'd be very interested in trying it.
Also look into a better drying method than "towel drying". This is where most of the scratching occurs. Start using a leaf blower or a quality car dryer like MasterBlaster. The combo of a high quality nano ceramic coating and the MB are synergistic and awesome. You can throw away your drying towels.
The following users liked this post:
Gary JR (11-17-2019)
#134
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Had car coated in Gyeon Durabead. This is a 5 year guarantee if you maintain with their products. Has anyone needed to have the ceramic coating redone? I wonder what needs to be done to the car when reapplication is needed. Applying ceramic coating does not seem difficult if you are patient and follow the directions. Is the IR light a necessity or does it just speed up the curing process?
#135
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Chicagoland Area
Posts: 26,141
Likes: 0
Received 5,413 Likes
on
2,516 Posts
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Originally Posted by Jack F
Has anyone needed to have the ceramic coating redone? I wonder what needs to be done to the car when reapplication is needed. Applying ceramic coating does not seem difficult if you are patient and follow the directions. Is the IR light a necessity or does it just speed up the curing process?
IR is only required for some brands. Most all should not be exposed to any water or elements for 24 hours.