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There was at least one there, but it wasn't assigned to us—so we drove only the 7MT, which was really nice. Given how similar the T drove to a Carrera, I'd be shocked if PDK would have done anything differently on a T than it does on a Carrera. One interesting thing, however: You'd miss the one thing that I feel most separates T from Carrera when you're driving it: The short shifter for the manual gearbox. On the other hand, you do gain some aspects of Sport Chrono without having to order that option.
Originally Posted by racemor
Hey Pete, do you know why they didn't include the S brakes as part of the T package? Seems like a no brainer with the other mechanical pieces and would avoid the high priced PCCBs.
I don't, and the person who might have been able to answer that question wasn't on my wave. I will inquire, but I suspect the idea here was a value package, and Porsche clearly doesn't view the standard brakes as inadequate for 370-hp. And, for many buyers, I am sure it's quite right. Still wish the upgrade to S gear would have been included.
Originally Posted by k997
What would it cost to actually install the S brakes aftermarket (actual Porsche ones, not 3rd party)? Parts and labor?
A good question, but I am betting it would be prohibitive—to the point PCCB would look attractive. Plus, I am not sure what other changes (if any) would need to be made to accommodate the new calipers, ABS settings, etc. These are areas I don't like messing with unless the upgrade is a bulletproof setup.
Originally Posted by Hit Apex
Pete, did any of the Ts you drove have the LWBs and if not, do you think the LWBs might have changed your impression of the car at all?
Good question, but no. And not sure they would have. The LWBs definitely "fix" you to the car a bit better/more directly since they are shell buckets, but I am not sure that they would have transformed the experience. I always note their difference in GT3s and GT4s, but that usually recedes as the drive continues.
I like my simple Porsches simple, so no, I'd skip RAS in the T.
But I sure like RAS in the GT3, which is a bigger, more complicated car. The level of calibrations in this latest GT3 are simply amazing. Its "of a piece" in use is a new level of revelation—I thought I had the basic measure of it after two fast days last July. I was wrong. It's better than I thought.
Skipping RAS on the T isn't good advice - its an incredibly effective performance addition (and largely unobtrusive).
Can't go with you on the GT3 - its where it should have been with the 991.1 GT3 release. I know these aren't popular words on Rennlist (which doesn't bother me in the slightest) but I genuinely can't get excited by something that is basically a fix for a self inflicted problem. Then again I don't understand soul or emotion (apparently) but I do understand Porsche are the masters of marketing.
In "GT type" cars the game has moved on across the board (materials, engine design, suspension systems, traction control systems). Thus when you view the GT3 through the prism of other marques, for example Maclaren and Ferrari it just seems dated. Sure the appeal is there for some and there are quite a few that shop across brands. However there are those that have and will simply move on.
My comments with regard to a TR6 or base Cayman reflect a simple truth - you can genuinely have a lot of fun in these cars literally all the time. You can't really do this with a GT3 but you can do this with the split personality Carrera.
Skipping RAS on the T isn't good advice - its an incredibly effective performance addition (and largely unobtrusive).
Can't go with you on the GT3 - its where it should have been with the 991.1 GT3 release. I know these aren't popular words on Rennlist (which doesn't bother me in the slightest) but I genuinely can't get excited by something that is basically a fix for a self inflicted problem. Then again I don't understand soul or emotion (apparently) but I do understand Porsche are the masters of marketing.
In "GT type" cars the game has moved on across the board (materials, engine design, suspension systems, traction control systems). Thus when you view the GT3 through the prism of other marques, for example Maclaren and Ferrari it just seems dated. Sure the appeal is there for some and there are quite a few that shop across brands. However there are those that have and will simply move on.
My comments with regard to a TR6 or base Cayman reflect a simple truth - you can genuinely have a lot of fun in these cars literally all the time. You can't really do this with a GT3 but you can do this with the split personality Carrera.
Options exist due to personal preferences and cost, and on the T, I do not feel RAS is necessary or desirable...to me, just as I don't wish for it on my Carrera. YMMV, of course, but why say someone stating their preference isn't good advice? (It wasn't meant as advice, just a statement of what I would do, after all.)
I hear you to some extent on fixes for self-inflicted problems (such as 997.1 Turbo PASM or 991.1 Turbo fun factor), but the level of calibration enjoyed by the 991.2 GT3 and GT2 RS could only have come as a result of advances and lessons from the development of the 991.1 GT3 and 918 Spyder. And neither of those were bad cars in terms of calibration. It's just that the latest cars are rather amazing in this regard, now having driven both.
Disagree in terms of what can and can't be enjoyed on the road if you're comparing Carrera T to GT3 Touring—the pace was pretty similar if not identical over the same roads with drivers of similar aptitude and temperament, the way the cars achieved it was very different. While a race track might have been a very different matter, this isn't the first time I've seen that with a 991.2 Carrera and 991-based GT3 on a curvy road. There's only so much performance a level head will let you use on the street, which kind of gets back to your point about the TR6 (ahem) and Cayman (fully agree!)...but I don't recall the trip as an exercise in frustration!
Stout, I understand where you are coming from - ignore my hard nosed comments on the GT3 - I was hoping for a game changer and its not, well at least from my perspective. I drive a 997 Cup fairly regularly so that appetite is well and truly whetted. Porsche got an awful lot right with that car (series 2 GT3 and RS 4L). Anyhow, time to make the Port sauce.
Stout, I understand where you are coming from - ignore my hard nosed comments on the GT3 - I was hoping for a game changer and its not, well at least from my perspective. I drive a 997 Cup fairly regularly so that appetite is well and truly whetted. Porsche got an awful lot right with that car (series 2 GT3 and RS 4L). Anyhow, time to make the Port sauce.
Merry Xmas
Indeed they did—to the point that no 991 GT3 moved me like the 997 RS 4.0...until last week's drive in the Touring.
Merry Christmas to you and yours, with warm greetings from San Francisco!
@ Stout -Fantastic write up !! I truly enjoyed reading your presentation and option suggestions . I do look forward to the arrival of the T and feel this is going to be a very impressive addition to the line up !
@666 - I read your post pondering the T Vs GTS . I like both but i also feel the T is what many have waited for a long time . It can easily be a 110K priced amazing 911 and at that price it offers an incredible (modern day 911) value . The GTS will; cost a lot more and none are bad choices but the T really does leave enough spare change to save for the next 911 . I think you will enjoy either . Good luck in the decision .
Looks like it would actually be cheaper than going aftermarket which I priced out at about $8,000 for parts alone from SharkWorks.
Also, along with offering S brakes at least as an upgrade, I think they should have given us the option of 911T on the rear. Just eliminate the Carrera.
... I think they should have given us the option of 911T on the rear. Just eliminate the Carrera.
Model designation delete is the best!
Anyone that knows the difference between a 911T and a 911 Turbo (any other 991 for that matter) doesn’t need the tramp stamp on the back. For those that don’t know the difference butt badging won’t help and why would we care anyway?
Anyone that knows the difference between a 911T and a 911 Turbo (any other 991 for that matter) doesn’t need the tramp stamp on the back. For those that don’t know the difference butt badging won’t help and why would we care anyway?
Gone for model designation delete on my T - looks so much better for it
Maybe in about 5 years I can pick up a GT3T manual.... cant wait... ha ha
Originally Posted by stout
I like my simple Porsches simple, so no, I'd skip RAS in the T.
But I sure like RAS in the GT3, which is a bigger, more complicated car. The level of calibrations in this latest GT3 are simply amazing. Its "of a piece" in use is a new level of revelation—I thought I had the basic measure of it after two fast days last July. I was wrong. It's better than I thought.
@ Stout: Thank you for the write ups. Very entertaining read. And nice to get first hand perspective on these new models.
Sorry for the delay on this...holidays and fires to put out. Not going to claim these as amazing photos, but I took them for my own documentation and maybe they add a bit of info for someone? If not, well, they're free.
The gray mirrors just didn't work for me...
...but they looked a lot better on the white car. Suspect the same would be true on GT Silver.
Gray on the rear badging and grille...
You really see the rear spoiler out the back window—this is taken at head height and you do see it in the rearview mirror, unlike a regular 991.2 Carrera coupe.
Sorry this is a bit out of focus, but I have to say the gloss black door trim worked better in person than on the configurator.
Lightweight Gorilla Glass means no defroster. It can be deleted, and must be deleted if you want a rear wiper.
The "chase" cars.
I really dug the Sport-Tex, but its shiny nubs mean it's not as grippy as I want cloth seats to be.
I like a lot of colors, but every press trip has a "winner." While the GT3 Touring was all about black, white was the best color for the T. Wish GT Silver had been there...
...also wish one could delete the gray paint on the wheels and mirrors. But it's a nit for sure and some will like it. I'd own it with the optional five-spoke wheels on a GT Silver or White car.
Yes, things got dirty on the Monte Carlo route. The T was clearly the better car, both for being narrower and having torque down low. I was "stuck" in the GT3 Touring for that section and offered to trade for the Carrera, but the other guy wasn't having any.
A map worth its weight in gold, and then some. A decade of notes on great sections scrawled all over it.
12-20-2017, 05:22 PM
