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X51 kit - 991.2S - Suncoast

 
Old 07-21-2017, 07:21 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Ed911.2 View Post
Maybe. I was thinking more of the extra ducts, vents and larger radiators as you progress up the 911 range. Comparing the basic Carrera to the GT2 RS, the latter is mostly holes to let the air in/out!
Yeah, that doesn't apply to the X51 kit here. There is no cooling difference and there is no difference other than the software and turbos.

As I said, working on trying to get this to work with a base which is I went for a base. It's only a matter of time and Porsche knows it so they are going to get their initial cash grab as they are the only turbo upgrade game in town.
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:41 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by sticky View Post
Yeah, that doesn't apply to the X51 kit here. There is no cooling difference and there is no difference other than the software and turbos.

As I said, working on trying to get this to work with a base which is I went for a base. It's only a matter of time and Porsche knows it so they are going to get their initial cash grab as they are the only turbo upgrade game in town.
The software does have an impact on the physicals in terms how and when oil pumps work and the overall cooling strategy in different modes Normal, Sport and Sports+. Obviously I have no way of verifying this. From what I have been told its a complete system wide remap.

Sticky my best guess for you is you will have to go full MOTEC (optimise headers, buy GTS turbos, open race exhaust - turbo back).

If you do this you will be good to go for 600Nm - I have no idea where the knock threshold sits with this engine at higher RPM.
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:45 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by randr View Post
The software does have an impact on the physicals in terms how and when oil pumps work and the overall cooling strategy in different modes Normal, Sport and Sports+. Obviously I have no way of verifying this. From what I have been told its a complete system wide remap.

Sticky my best guess for you is you will have to go full MOTEC (optimise headers, buy GTS turbos, open race exhaust - turbo back).
It is a complete remap. I don't know if someone can just clone the GTS software and get it to work with a standard ECU or if you could swap an ECU maybe. It's going to be fun to find out.

I won't do a standalone on this car as the software evolution will allow the factory DME to run upgraded turbos. Porsche can flash it, we'll be able to flash it. Motec is definitely a way to go for those who just can't wait and want to run whatever they want to run.
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:46 PM
  #34  
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Why is it called X51 instead of X50? X51 is the Powerkit that involves different intake manifold, heads, etc. X50 is the Powerkit that involves a pair of larger turbos, larger ICs and tuning maps to make the most of them. I've had both. X50 made more difference but seemed like a rip-off at 18,000 bucks. X51 made barely perceptible difference but seemed like an elegant, time-honored hot-rodders solution that was also a rip-off at 15,000 or whatever it was (I got a deal since it was part of GTS package.)
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:50 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by NoGaBiker View Post
Why is it called X51 instead of X50? X51 is the Powerkit that involves different intake manifold, heads, etc. X50 is the Powerkit that involves a pair of larger turbos, larger ICs and tuning maps to make the most of them.
Not sure - but it definitely says X51 on the invoice and the product description sheet.

$7000 is a bargain in Porsche land - warranty plus full remap - plus 50Nm and 30HP across the the full rev range (not just the top end).

For me, it delivers the near perfect Porsche e.g. RWD, PDK, PASM, SC, PSE, RAS, PTV-E, "narrow" body with GTS power (peak 450HP) and torque (550Nm) plus interior designed to my taste and daily requirements Whats not to like?
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Old 07-22-2017, 02:45 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by NoGaBiker View Post
Why is it called X51 instead of X50? X51 is the Powerkit that involves different intake manifold, heads, etc. X50 is the Powerkit that involves a pair of larger turbos, larger ICs and tuning maps to make the most of them. I've had both. X50 made more difference but seemed like a rip-off at 18,000 bucks. X51 made barely perceptible difference but seemed like an elegant, time-honored hot-rodders solution that was also a rip-off at 15,000 or whatever it was (I got a deal since it was part of GTS package.)
X50 is reserved for the 911 Turbo. X51 is for Carreras.

The 996 turbo X50 package included larger K24 turbos used on the GT2 and Turbo S. They offered much more headroom.
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Old 07-22-2017, 08:50 AM
  #37  
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Curious to know if 1) there is a core charge on the turbos requiring the buyer to return existing turbos as an exchange, and 2) if not required, what value could be placed on the used turbos in the parts world, and 3) are the turbos in the .2 universal or only applicable to Porsche, specifically, the 911?
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Old 07-22-2017, 10:31 AM
  #38  
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Good questions - short answer is I don't know the answers but I will be asking for the two "S" turbos for my "bookshelf."
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Old 07-22-2017, 10:41 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by sticky View Post
X50 is reserved for the 911 Turbo. X51 is for Carreras.

The 996 turbo X50 package included larger K24 turbos used on the GT2 and Turbo S. They offered much more headroom.
Yes, I know, I had one. But I'm just saying, the X51 package has always involved a traditional hot-rodder approach to building an "all motor" hopped up car. The X50 has always involved throwing bigger turbos and ICs and SW onto a platform that already has turbos and ICs.

I think it's outstanding that they make the X51 for 7000+ dollars; the $17,895 extra the X50 cost on my 996TT (in 2002 dollars, no less) for the exact same thing that now costs 7500 2017 dollars was obviously a ripoff. And you only got 35hp out of it (although you got just shy of 50 lbsft of torque.)

While I'd never in a million years have considered dropping the $15k for normally aspirated X51 (the HP was nice but you got zero torks out of that kit), half that amount for real torque makes a lot of sense. And the X50 package on my 2002 TT? $24,751 in today's dollars Porsche guys are stoopid.
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Old 07-22-2017, 11:47 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by NoGaBiker View Post
Porsche guys are stoopid.
yeah but....saying you got the "power kit" on your Porsche just sounds cool.
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Old 07-22-2017, 01:18 PM
  #41  
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For what it is worth;

Dealer list on the GTS DME is $1150 or so
GTS Turbos are around $4500 per side

There does not seem to be any core / core information listed, so this is outright.

The X51 kit at $7500 is a bargain in my opinion.


Also all the hardware of the engine is the same between Base, S, and GTS. Whos to say we can't just order a GTS DME / pair of turbos, adapt the DME to the car, and call it a day? Why can't we just have a tuner flash their performance GTS software over the base or S ecu for even more power (with matching turbochargers)

Any strategies of cooling will be in the code for the S or GTS ecu, though the hardware is the same. This shouldn't matter.

991.2 Carrera, S, GTS turbos are specific to these cars, can't steal turbos from a different 911 or different generation.
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Old 07-22-2017, 02:50 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by NoGaBiker View Post
Yes, I know, I had one. But I'm just saying, the X51 package has always involved a traditional hot-rodder approach to building an "all motor" hopped up car. The X50 has always involved throwing bigger turbos and ICs and SW onto a platform that already has turbos and ICs.

I think it's outstanding that they make the X51 for 7000+ dollars; the $17,895 extra the X50 cost on my 996TT (in 2002 dollars, no less) for the exact same thing that now costs 7500 2017 dollars was obviously a ripoff. And you only got 35hp out of it (although you got just shy of 50 lbsft of torque.)

While I'd never in a million years have considered dropping the $15k for normally aspirated X51 (the HP was nice but you got zero torks out of that kit), half that amount for real torque makes a lot of sense. And the X50 package on my 2002 TT? $24,751 in today's dollars Porsche guys are stoopid.
Agreed. That's why these 991.2's are the best 911 tuning bargain of all time.

Not only is the X51 package an absurd value all the engines and intercoolers are the same. Porsche cutting costs and parts sharing works in our favor for once.
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Old 07-22-2017, 02:52 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Sprchng View Post
For what it is worth;

Dealer list on the GTS DME is $1150 or so
GTS Turbos are around $4500 per side

There does not seem to be any core / core information listed, so this is outright.

The X51 kit at $7500 is a bargain in my opinion.


Also all the hardware of the engine is the same between Base, S, and GTS. Whos to say we can't just order a GTS DME / pair of turbos, adapt the DME to the car, and call it a day? Why can't we just have a tuner flash their performance GTS software over the base or S ecu for even more power (with matching turbochargers)

Any strategies of cooling will be in the code for the S or GTS ecu, though the hardware is the same. This shouldn't matter.

991.2 Carrera, S, GTS turbos are specific to these cars, can't steal turbos from a different 911 or different generation.
That's what some of us are planning to do I'll report on this ASAP.
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Old 07-22-2017, 04:10 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by randr View Post
Not sure - but it definitely says X51 on the invoice and the product description sheet.

$7000 is a bargain in Porsche land - warranty plus full remap - plus 50Nm and 30HP across the the full rev range (not just the top end).

For me, it delivers the near perfect Porsche e.g. RWD, PDK, PASM, SC, PSE, RAS, PTV-E, "narrow" body with GTS power (peak 450HP) and torque (550Nm) plus interior designed to my taste and daily requirements Whats not to like?
I think one of the coolest surprises of the X51/GTS is The Ring lap time - Beat the GT3. Yeah, I know it's not curing hunger. But I like it.

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Old 07-22-2017, 04:13 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Benedict14 View Post
I think one of the coolest surprises of the X51/GTS is The Ring lap time - Beat the GT3. Yeah, I know it's not curing hunger. But I like it.

What were the times for both? Sport Auto test?
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