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X51 kit - 991.2S - Suncoast

 
Old 07-22-2017, 04:42 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by sticky View Post
What were the times for both? Sport Auto test?

I can't remember. As you'd expect, I'm talking about the previous model GT3. Not the current model that's about to appear.

Google the video of the ring lap. To say that it's impressive is an understatement. Unbelievable what these cars can do in the hands of a professional.
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Old 07-22-2017, 04:50 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Benedict14 View Post
I can't remember. As you'd expect, I'm talking about the previous model GT3. Not the current model that's about to appear.

Google the video of the ring lap. To say that it's impressive is an understatement. Unbelievable what these cars can do in the hands of a professional.
I think you're referring to the Porsche test time of 7:22.
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Old 07-22-2017, 05:04 PM
  #48  
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Dang, that's good! ^^ Turn up the boost a little more and they'll be down in Camaro territory (7:16).
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Old 07-22-2017, 06:11 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by NoGaBiker View Post
Dang, that's good! ^^ Turn up the boost a little more and they'll be down in Camaro territory (7:16).
Did you mean 7:29.6 for the Camaro ?

https://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/

On the other hand, I may have been wrong. Or nearly wrong. The GT3.2 did it in 7:12.6 and the GT3.1 did it 13 seconds slower. The 991.2 GTS was 7:26. The only reference that I could find for the GT3.1 was a garbage Drive article. Maybe I missed it on the Ring list ?

Either way. 7:26 is quick - ish.

https://rennlist.com/articles/2017-p...s-nurburgring/
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Old 07-22-2017, 07:31 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Benedict14 View Post
Oh sure, there are some Camaros that are as slow as a 991.2 GTS. I was talking about the fast ones.

http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/.../0622-zl1.html

My first car was an old 72 Camaro 350. I really don't remember it feeling as fast as these new ones.
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Old 07-22-2017, 10:20 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Benedict14 View Post
Did you mean 7:29.6 for the Camaro ?

https://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/

On the other hand, I may have been wrong. Or nearly wrong. The GT3.2 did it in 7:12.6 and the GT3.1 did it 13 seconds slower. The 991.2 GTS was 7:26. The only reference that I could find for the GT3.1 was a garbage Drive article. Maybe I missed it on the Ring list ?

Either way. 7:26 is quick - ish.

https://rennlist.com/articles/2017-p...s-nurburgring/
Actually Sport Auto got a 7:23.7 out of the 991.2 GTS.

The 7:26 time you're referencing is Porsche's on the standard tires. They did a 7:22 on P-Zero Corsa N0 tires.

If you need the references let me know.
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Old 07-22-2017, 10:23 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by NoGaBiker View Post
Oh sure, there are some Camaros that are as slow as a 991.2 GTS. I was talking about the fast ones.

http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/.../0622-zl1.html

My first car was an old 72 Camaro 350. I really don't remember it feeling as fast as these new ones.
The ZL1 is a beast but it needs 650 hp and 650 tq to top it. Plus 11 heat exchangers. Just brute force pulling it past but it's a hell of a car for the money.

The GT3 will beat it with far less power though and no forced induction
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Old 07-22-2017, 10:34 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by sticky View Post

The GT3 will beat it with far less power though and no forced induction
Another way to state that: "The GT3 gives you far less power and no forced induction and barely beats the Camaro for $90,000 more."

We have to face it, we all have our reasons for driving Porsches rather than Camaros or Corvettes -- I sold my only GM sports or pony car in 1979 -- but the only "yeah, but" arguments you're gonna win are a) fit/finish of interior and exterior, b) not looking like somebody who drives a Corvette/Camaro, and c) the engineering elegance of doing so well with such little horsepower (although that elegance is offset to some extent by requiring so much cash to accomplish.)

Ah well... in the end it matters not. When I decide it's time for the next one I'm fairly certain it will come from Porsche once again.
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Old 07-22-2017, 10:48 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by NoGaBiker View Post
Another way to state that: "The GT3 gives you far less power and no forced induction and barely beats the Camaro for $90,000 more."

We have to face it, we all have our reasons for driving Porsches rather than Camaros or Corvettes -- I sold my only GM sports or pony car in 1979 -- but the only "yeah, but" arguments you're gonna win are a) fit/finish of interior and exterior, b) not looking like somebody who drives a Corvette/Camaro, and c) the engineering elegance of doing so well with such little horsepower (although that elegance is offset to some extent by requiring so much cash to accomplish.)

Ah well... in the end it matters not. When I decide it's time for the next one I'm fairly certain it will come from Porsche once again.
You could say it another way again that the GT3 offers the closest thing to a GT3 class race car experience for the road. Topping a blown 6.2 liter V8 from less displacement is admirable I think. Of course it will take more money to eek out NA horses.

There's things the 911 will always do better regardless such as weighing less. The ZL1 is embarrassingly fat with poor weight distribution. Also no dual clutch option.

Anyway, we could debate the pros and cons for pages but this is about the X51 turbos from the GTS and putting them on other 991.2's...
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Old 07-23-2017, 12:21 PM
  #55  
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I'm interested in this. Does anyone know what Porsche quotes as installation time and dealer labor rate? I know the rates will vary, but im just trying to get a general sense as to the full cost. Thanks.
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Old 07-23-2017, 02:43 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by NoGaBiker View Post
Another way to state that: "The GT3 gives you far less power and no forced induction and barely beats the Camaro for $90,000 more."

We have to face it, we all have our reasons for driving Porsches rather than Camaros or Corvettes -- I sold my only GM sports or pony car in 1979 -- but the only "yeah, but" arguments you're gonna win are a) fit/finish of interior and exterior, b) not looking like somebody who drives a Corvette/Camaro, and c) the engineering elegance of doing so well with such little horsepower (although that elegance is offset to some extent by requiring so much cash to accomplish.)

Ah well... in the end it matters not. When I decide it's time for the next one I'm fairly certain it will come from Porsche once again.
To add to Stickys point - That's not a Camaro. It's a car build specifically (they admitted) for the Ring. Its a monster that would be absolutely undriveable in anything close to normal day to day.

Its Chevys 'stalking horse', built to set a time so the Nascar crowd can point at a map of China and say - see, we beat the Germans at a ring. It's just not a like for like comparison. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul

P.S. thanks for the GTS time Sticky.
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Old 07-23-2017, 09:50 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by sticky View Post
The ZL1 is a beast but it needs 650 hp and 650 tq to top the GTS. Plus 11 heat exchangers. Just brute force...

The GT3 will beat it with far less power though and no forced induction
Originally Posted by Benedict14 View Post
[The Camaro's] a monster... It's just not a like for like comparison.
LOL, So the GTS/GT3 limit their performance by saddling themselves with little girly sixes that make cute levels of hp;

while the ZL1 limits its performance by saddling itself with eight-hundred extra pounds of slovenly pork;

and all three run about the same time over a demanding 13-mile road course
(7:22 GTS, 7:16 ZL1, 7:XX for GT3?).

Now which one was it that costs $61,140?

See, this is why you just don't want to go down this road. It's only gonna make all of us feel foolish. Keep reminding yourself about how refined your Porsche is compared to a Camaro. Works for me!

For the record I dispatched a regular SS and a 50th Anniversary SS today at Road Atlanta, with aplomb I might add. And that was with the even girlier 385hp version of the 3.8.
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Old 07-23-2017, 09:53 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by NoGaBiker View Post
LOL, So the GTS/GT3 limit their performance by saddling themselves with little girly sixes that make cute levels of hp;

while the ZL1 limits its performance by saddling itself with eight-hundred extra pounds of slovenly pork;

and all three run about the same time over a demanding 13-mile road course
(7:22 GTS, 7:16 ZL1, 7:XX for GT3?).

Now which one was it that costs $61,140?

See, this is why you just don't want to go down this road. It's only gonna make all of us feel foolish. Keep reminding yourself about how refined your Porsche is compared to a Camaro. Works for me!

For the record I dispatched a regular SS and a 50th Anniversary SS today at Road Atlanta, with aplomb I might add. And that was with the even girlier 385hp version of the 3.8.
I don't understand your premise. The 911 doesn't have a 6.2 liter V8 under the hood with a blower.

The 911 is not Camaro competition either. The ZL1 is quick, cool. And so what? I wouldn't trade my car for one if it ran the 'Ring in under 7 minutes. Porsche does more with less.

Plus, if a 911 was priced like a Camaro I wouldn't want a 911.

If your goal is bang for the buck, just cross Porsche off the list.

I for one am glad Porsche offers the option of a naturally aspirated or turbocharged flat-6. Porsche also offers more hp per liter in NA form than... well, anyone. Not good enough? Get a GT2 RS. If you can afford it.

May we get back to the X51 kit now?
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Old 07-23-2017, 09:59 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by sticky View Post
I don't understand your premise.
Well, if my eloquently stated premise wasn't sufficient on its own to bring understanding to you, I've got nothing else. I left it all on the table with that last one...

Now if the X51 kit got you 650 hp, THAT would be something to keep talking about!

Originally Posted by sticky View Post
Porsche does more with less.
Why should we get "less" for twice the price? Why don't they do "even more" with "more?"
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Old 07-23-2017, 10:23 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by NoGaBiker View Post
Well, if my eloquently stated premise wasn't sufficient on its own to bring understanding to you, I've got nothing else. I left it all on the table with that last one...

Now if the X51 kit got you 650 hp, THAT would be something to keep talking about!



Why should we get "less" for twice the price? Why don't they do "even more" with "more?"
Clearly we have different definitions of eloquence.

The X51 kit will get you to 650 hp. It's at an underrated 450 to begin with (look at the Sport Auto dynos compared to the new GT3) and with bolt ons and a tune will be doing 550+.

The factory turbo housings with a proper hybrid upgrade will get you to 650+. It's just unfortunate this forum is filled with people living in the past and behind the turbo tuning times.

As to your last point, Porsche is not Chevrolet which is part of its appeal. I seriously doubt Ferrari 488 GTB owners are looking at ZL1 'Ring times and panicking.

How do you expect to get over 500 naturally aspirated horses from 4.0 liters on a budget anyway? Why would a GT3 be expected with a relatively small naturally aspirated flat-6 to top a blown 6.2 liter V8? Isn't Porsche topping said LT4 V8 with the GT2 RS by the way? With far less displacement?

If you are about performance per dollar don't look at any European cars compared to the Americans. Absolutely pointless argument.
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