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Old 06-19-2017, 09:41 PM
  #181  
hf1
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Originally Posted by tcsracing1
I think LMP1 is also technology war/race. Top manufactures want to be #1.
The day porsche is the only LMP1 car is the day that everybody else falls behind in R&D and marketing it. Porsche wins without even racing.
Porsche also 'wins' without racing Toyota. In which car segment does Porsche compete with Toyota? What type of car buyer makes a decision between a Porsche and a Toyota? Wouldn't focusing on a venue/series where it competes against its actual market competitors make more sense?
Old 06-19-2017, 10:08 PM
  #182  
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Originally Posted by hf1
Porsche also 'wins' without racing Toyota. In which car segment does Porsche compete with Toyota? What type of car buyer makes a decision between a Porsche and a Toyota? Wouldn't focusing on a venue/series where it competes against its actual market competitors make more sense?
In this case it is about brand recognition and technology as opposed to competiting for each others customers.
Toyota wants to be not only known as reliable but also as advanced to help sell brand image and of course cars.
Porsche wants to be known as a championship motorsports brand with leading technology to also better market their cars.
Old 06-19-2017, 10:23 PM
  #183  
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Originally Posted by tcsracing1
I dont think other manufactures are doing it. At least not to the level of Porsche.
Just look at porsches performance hybrid line up for 2017.
Who else brings high performance hybrid tried and tested technology to the street?

LeMans is a tonne of brand/marketing for Porsche. Especially with the win no matter how few entrants. People in general will remember a winner.
Yes, the 1 percent of Porsche customers who even know what LeMans is, will, for a fleeting second, maybe care that Porsche won the class with one of those cars that looks like a spaceship, while the version that looks similar to the one in their driveway got its *** kicked by the Astons and the Ferraris. There is minimal real marketing value in the 919 winning LeMans - zip. Even most race enthusiasts yawn at it.

And you honestly think that five years from now Porsche will be the only manufacturer on the planet offering a high performance hybrid or pure EV platform?
Old 06-19-2017, 10:54 PM
  #184  
ipse dixit
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Originally Posted by hf1
Porsche also 'wins' without racing Toyota. In which car segment does Porsche compete with Toyota? What type of car buyer makes a decision between a Porsche and a Toyota? Wouldn't focusing on a venue/series where it competes against its actual market competitors make more sense?
Luxury SUVs and sedans, and perhaps even the new Lexus LC500.

If by Toyota you also include Lexus, which you should and have to.
Old 06-20-2017, 02:56 AM
  #185  
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Originally Posted by Archimedes
Yes, the 1 percent of Porsche customers who even know what LeMans is, will, for a fleeting second, maybe care that Porsche won the class with one of those cars that looks like a spaceship, while the version that looks similar to the one in their driveway got its *** kicked by the Astons and the Ferraris. There is minimal real marketing value in the 919 winning LeMans - zip. Even most race enthusiasts yawn at it.

And you honestly think that five years from now Porsche will be the only manufacturer on the planet offering a high performance hybrid or pure EV platform?
Actually, Porsche customer base know enough that the car in their driveway is indeed not a race car nor intended to be one.
They do however relish the fact that Brand is a winner and some of that race car DNA in their street car.

I tend to not really follow prototypes to be honest, but to assume there is minimal marketing value to a prototype LeMans win for a sports car manufacturer is laughable. That is like saying the marketing division of the most profitable car manufacture in the world do not know what they are doing and that they got to where they are today by luck...

And yes, 5 years from now Porsche will have the only performance hybrid (worth talking about anyhow). Afterall, they won LeMans with the technology. Not a bad way to market a hybrid or EV....
Old 06-20-2017, 03:56 AM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by tcsracing1
Actually, Porsche customer base know enough that the car in their driveway is indeed not a race car nor intended to be one.
They do however relish the fact that Brand is a winner and some of that race car DNA in their street car.

I tend to not really follow prototypes to be honest, but to assume there is minimal marketing value to a prototype LeMans win for a sports car manufacturer is laughable. That is like saying the marketing division of the most profitable car manufacture in the world do not know what they are doing and that they got to where they are today by luck...

And yes, 5 years from now Porsche will have the only performance hybrid (worth talking about anyhow). Afterall, they won LeMans with the technology. Not a bad way to market a hybrid or EV....
Strongly agree with this. Every dealership on the planet will have big screens showing that #2 car crossing then line. Over and over, for the next x months. If you don't think that validates a potential buyer's decision-making, you're kidding yourself.
Old 06-20-2017, 04:05 AM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by Waxer
So I guess Porsche can't win with what they selll unlike Ford or Chevy or AM? $150k+ is a little much for a car that can't win.
Originally Posted by randr
^^^^Cup car
Originally Posted by Waxer
A Cup wouldn't have a chance in that fiield. Everyone keeps whining about keeping NA 6. It can no longer compete. If you want NA 6 PAG can drop LMP. Don't need it for
race development or performance development unless their thing is now winning in a 2 man race
I know, it was meant to be humorous e.g. Porsche can win in an event where all cars are made by Porsche - e.g Cup car competition.

The reality is, in WEC GT Porsche and the RSR are dead set last. The NA flat six looses them optionality - of course the BOP settings could be changed to allow Porsche to win. But when you are down on torque and or displacement you are fighting with one hand tied behind your back.

Ultimately if BOP is so heavily flexed to deliver a win for Porsche then it makes a joke out of the championship and no one wants that.

The RSR is halfway to success, Porsche know what they need to do next....

The future could be straight forward - make all your streetable track cars mid-engined. Make the GT4 an entry level car (NA), the GT3 becomes the next step up (NA), the GT3 RS follows on in FI form and the RSR takes it up a notch further with FI.

The GT4 and GT3 become customer racing cars the GT3RS can be a cross over factory customer car and the RSRS full factory and select customers/teams.

Last edited by randr; 06-20-2017 at 04:53 AM.
Old 06-20-2017, 04:51 AM
  #188  
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Originally Posted by Guest89
Endurance racing is as much at the core of the brand's identity as F1 is for Ferrari.
Agree. Endurance racing is why I love, buy and drive Porsches ! It represents the core values of the brand, core values that I value and identify with ...
Old 06-20-2017, 04:54 AM
  #189  
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Old 06-20-2017, 05:14 AM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by Guest89
Porsche more likely to pull out than Toyota; Akio made public statements all but assuring their presence next year.

If Porsche pull out and Toyota were to compete against no other OEM in LMP1 next year and "win" that would be absolutely farcical.

Not 100% sure, but I believe there is a rule that states the class will cease to exist if not at least 2 manufacturers are participating ...
Old 06-20-2017, 09:57 AM
  #191  
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Dave: Great info. You are a definite asset here. 👍
Old 06-20-2017, 10:49 AM
  #192  
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a good recap video for those of us who couldn't watch

Old 06-20-2017, 01:42 PM
  #193  
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Originally Posted by tcsracing1
Actually, Porsche customer base know enough that the car in their driveway is indeed not a race car nor intended to be one.
They do however relish the fact that Brand is a winner and some of that race car DNA in their street car.
Hah! Sit at a Porsche dealer and ask the first 10 customers that walk in the dealership:

1) Who won LeMans this year?
2) What car won LeMans this year?
3) What was the last race you watched where a 911 variant won?

I'll bet you the answer from 9 out of 10 will be:

1) No idea, maybe Porsche since you're asking me in a Porsche dealership?
2) No idea
3) Can't remember the last time I saw a 911 win a race.
Old 06-20-2017, 01:44 PM
  #194  
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Originally Posted by Gastrogt3
Strongly agree with this. Every dealership on the planet will have big screens showing that #2 car crossing then line. Over and over, for the next x months. If you don't think that validates a potential buyer's decision-making, you're kidding yourself.
If it was a 911, I'd agree, but it's not. It's a prototype 919 that bears no resemblance to anything Porsche sells but for the decals on the car. Anyone stretching to identify that with the street car they're buying is, stretching.
Old 06-20-2017, 02:02 PM
  #195  
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Maybe...

Last edited by mass27; 06-23-2017 at 03:03 AM.


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