rodsky

Agreed. If you buy an R for $400 to flip for $450, it's just hustling on a bigger scale. Now if the market gives way, like it seems to be doing for the R and Yeezys, then watch out.

Argon_

True

Jim55

Porsche should crack down on this flipper or at least the dealer who is giving them an allocation. They also had two .2 GT3 positions they flipped for $30k each before they even configured the orders.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/car...-position.html

Petevb

Lol. Figures...

The financial industry has consistently needed to create new laws to make tactics that are profitable but harmful illegal. Without those laws consumers get taken advantage of by monopolies, insider trading, pyramid schemes and other shady dealings that both hurt them and undermines the market.

Flipping hurts customers by driving prices up. It undermines the market and hurts Porsche by pissing good customers off. It's bad for everyone except the flipper. It may not yet be "illegal" but it's little wonder that in the absence of laws Porsche and other car companies are attempting make their own "laws" to prevent it. And it's little wonder that until those laws can take effect you won't find much love from those of us you're hurting here.

cebe

I have been told by different sources (including Porsche official Centers) that in Switzerland and probably in Germany the upcoming GT2 RS can be had only with a lease contract directly with Porsche and a minimum 6 months" holding period" plus 30 days notice for re-payment.

This is apparently discouraging "flipping" by some extent.

Hopefully more allocations available for "bona fide" buyers that intend to actually use the car.

Coincident

A simple way to end flippers. Make as many cars as the market demands. Problem solved. What's with this limited production BS.

Quikag

Heres the multi-million dollar question though: How many Porsche GT buyers would drop off if the car depreciated 30-40% in a few years like the Corvettes, R8s, regular 911s, GT-R's, Vipers, Macs, AMGs, etc. Part of the allure of the GT models is the very strong resale value.

How many of y'all would maybe not buy a $170k GT3 or $230k 3RS or $300k+ 2RS if you were going to eat a guaranteed 30-40% depreciation in a few years. It's a big dollar hit.

orthojoe

30% hit over 3 years is not bad at all. I'll take it. I'd love to end the whole 'own the car for nothing' phenomena. It's annoying and it's not true if you plan to drive the car.

Spyerx

Agree.

And it's not true in the end if you drive it. I've spent an RS on my RS over the last 4 years :-)

Gtsilvergt4

Demand(desire) for these cars would absolutely greatly diminish if they depreciated 30% over 2-3 years like 911's. If I thought I could get a GT3 for 30% off in 2 years, I would wait to pick up a low mileage one then. That said, Ill be buying taking delivery of a new one in February, and if it falls in value 50% in 4-5 years, no big deal. I plan on keeping it long term anyway,

Sonnen Porsche

Agreed 100%....Certain cars should be "limited" with numbered plaques etc. GT3/GT4 should be as many as we can order. Not 6 a year when we have 50+ orders for the car. The GT3RS and GT2RS should be more limited then the standard GT3...but not so that I get a handful of cars only. Hopefully Porsche will see the light and go to an order only based allocation system with the GT cars. That will prevent flipping and raising the MSRP will certainly help like in the case of the GT2RS. If their is another GT3RS I hope it is $230,000 as the current GT3 is priced way to low for the car you are getting. Also this 918 Spyder program needs to be modified by Porsche at the allocation stage by actually just building 270 EXTRA of every GT car so they do not screw over all of the other loyal customers who did not buy a 918.....

Jim55

I think a lot more people would be driving Porsche GT cars like Andreas invisions. Porsche created this and GT cars have gone the way of Ferrari where you never see one with high miles. That's what in my mind set Porsche apart from other brands, you could drive them and it didn't hurt the value much. I bet half the people on the allocation list for a .2 GT3 would drop off if they heard Porsche will make a GT3 for everyone that wants one at MSRP. It seems like the only Porsche's being driven a lot are SUV's or sedans. It's sad that the really badass cars they make with all the best technology tend to sit and collect dust so they don't lose value.

Pokerhobo

It's not limited production, it's production limited. In any case, let's say Porsche hires a bunch more employees, buys more manufacturing equipment, and orders more parts from suppliers to increase their GT production 2x or even 3x. Let's say their next model isn't in as high a demand. Do they now have a bunch of layoffs? What do they do with the unused equipment? Are their suppliers now screwed because they also needed to buy more equipment and employees? It's easy to say "make as many as possible" but in the real world, it doesn't quite work like that.

ShakeNBake

You have a stronger stomach than I do. After spending a new M3 on my RS to enjoy it, I had to find fresher waters. Not turning out to be much better with the GT4 though, so regretting the move.

I think there would be FAR FAR less demand for the GT cars if they were easier to get. Hype and exclusivity pull the heart strings of luxury buyers. I think they should make more GT cars because I want to buy one without having to give a dealer fallacio, however I'm not sure they are willing to test when the vicious cycle (more supply ->leads to easier to get cars ->lowers prices ->less exclusivity, ->less C&C status, ->more depreciation) that starts to reduce demand. BMW is now faced with this. They have eroded the status of their brand to the point that they are no longer in demand, and now in trouble. I do enjoy their depreciation, as you can buy a new M car for about 60 cents on the dollar within a year.

Argon_

This. The GT cars are unfortunately going the way of Ferrari. I think Porsche should produce more, but not overproduce like BMW.

A true demand -1 situation would keep the cars from depreciating like an M4, yet allow the people who want GTs to acquire them.

A.P. once made a reference to trying to create a demand -1 market. Yet we all know that is complete bull. Porsche is building demand -50%!

THAT is the problem.