GT3RS-Fan1

I think this is a result of PORSCHE creating some awesome products. There are cars I value a lot so I use it sparingly. 911R is my latest one from last year's delivery acceptance and use it on late night cruises after I watch the late night show weather permitting. All of us buy things we enjoy and use them the way we want to use it. To me the 911R is the most fun car I've ever had. I am simply happy to be a recipient of one.

I agree. There are cars I have no one else cleans and uses but me (members in the family don't drive manual) . There are special cars we've owned in our lifetime and how we use is dependent upon the owner.

I second that motion. Mr. Eduardo is very diplomatic in his post. He doesn't get riled up easy. I agree that I have learned a lot just by reading Eduardo's post on Paint-To-Sample (PTS) . I'm aspiring to have one of the cars into the future to be PTS. However just as many here have experienced, I am still contemplating about the agony of long wait due to the lengthy and stand by process of the PTS versus getting the new model as it becomes available. On the next numbered car, I will for sure shoot for PTS.

Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1

dark knight

again if the only way to get the car was to order w nonrefundable deposit or pay up front this won't be a problem

STG

I'd say Joe and Eduardo are both valuable contributors here on RL and both in it for the same passion for these cars in different ways.

A little disagreement on a subject like this happens and I'm sure all parties can move on with no hard feelings.

This is the major league and we can all handle a few fast pitches

Z356

Nick:

The 911R allocations for the US were mostly taken up by
918 VIP customers in this important Porsche market. The
exceptions were just a few. I know of only two non-918
owners that got a 911R in the United States - Rennlisters
C.J. Wilson & Suitcase. I am sure a few others won that
e-ticket...but not many. And that was & is the 'problem'.

US dealers were NOT able to get any additional 911R
allocations for their non-918 customers. The ones given
to 918 VIPs DID count against dealer totals! And then
there is something else related to this 'problem' that only
a few people here understand. In the US, customers that
decided to buy a 918 back in its day chose which dealer
they wanted to 'deal' with. There are many dealers that
got 5 or more customers with 918s. When the 911R were
allocated, the 918 VIPs took them & they ended up just
at the dealers normally associated with high-net worth
individuals. So you had a double-whammy:

A) Almost all US dealers not only did NOT have a 911R
to allocate to their customers.

B) But worse, some US dealers never even got a chance
to 'show off' at 911R in their expensive Porsche showroom
since they didn't have a 918 customer in their ranks!

Not surprisingly, many US dealers were very pissed!

And the combination of all of this is what really triggered
the changes we have seen now instituted by PCNA. First,
the 'holding period' required for 918 VIPs before they can
sell (e.g. 911R) has been set at one year from date of
purchase. And second, the so-called 'cracking down'
on Flippers, the topic of this thread. The third change
(we hope) is that in the future the number of units in
Limited Edition models will be increased to take into
consideration the take-rate of those in the 918 VIP
Program in the US!

PAG could/should have anticipated a problem with limiting
the production of 911R worldwide to 991 in light of the
number of customers they knew full well were in the US
918 VIP program! Sccchiii estimated in January these are
down to 250 from the original 286 US owners. And I think
Chaosoul has intimated PCNA has yanked the VIP privileges
for more 'flippers' since that date. So their numbers are
dwindling. As all of you know, the 918 VIP Program allows
its members 'first right of first refusal' for any new gt product,
although the courtesy was also extended for the non-gt 981
Spyder...and a few limited edition Panameras!





In my opinion, they could have made 1245 or more 991Rs
and taken care of this 'problem'. But they didn't and now
they must live with consequences of their lack of foresight.
Don't understimate the headaches & heartaches that have
occurred when lifetime US customers (that over the years
have bought Porsches that cumulative add up to more than
the cost of a 918) felt they were not treated correctly & got
pissed. And their dealers had no choice but to voice these
complaints to PCNA & PAG. And thus the current 'crackdown'
on 'flippers'. It was the lack of 911R allocations for important
customers like these of that started the 'problem'. Remember
PAG cranked out MY2016 991 gt3 RS until way past expected
build dates to meet demand & sort of make up for their
restrictive allocations on the 911R. But that was not enough
to satisfy those that felt Porsche treated them - loyal US
customers - unfairly!

So that you all understand clearly the 'thinking' behind this
crackdown, I'll recount here an exchange I had last February
with someone very familiar with the 'problem' & well connected
with US dealers, PCNA & PAG:

Question by me:
"Is the initiative to curtail the flipping coming from PAG
or just PCNA?"

Response by my 'contact':
"My (source of information) does not believe PAG cares
at all about this issue, this is a PCNA issue only currently.
Driven mostly by USA dealer complaints."

So caveat lector!

***
And this problem will continue if/when Porsche announces
the next Limited Edition gt model. My prediction is that we
will see the number set for those numbered/limited editions
set higher from now on - just to accommodate the expected
take rate from the US 918 VIP Program.

My dos centavos, for what it's worth.

I'll express my own opinion re: this matter on a future
post.

Saludos & Vaya Con Dios,
Eduardo
Scottsdale

Petevb

It continues to astound me how disconnected VWAG / Porsche seem to be from market, especially in the US.

Initially canceling the 911R program, then reinstating but dramatically underestimating the numbers it would sell in... Massively missing GT4 demand (worldwide). Complete disconnection re how pissed the VIP program has made their best (current and future) customers.

Honestly it's hard not to see it as amateur hour...

NateOZ

Speaking of irritating customers, I noticed a change to the Porsche website a few weeks ago, their new MSRP disclosure includes what I don't recall seeing before. I checked Canada as an example and the same language isn't there.

New Disclosure (emphasis added):
*Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price. Excludes tax; title; registration; delivery, processing and handling fee; dealer charges. Dealer sets actual selling price.

Then on the configurator the same thing applies:

* All information is subject to change without notice. Neither Porsche Cars North America, Inc. nor the manufacturer can accept liability arising from the use of any information contained herein. Only an actual invoice issued by PCNA at the time a vehicle is sold to an authorized Porsche dealer may be used as an official indication of equipment and pricing. The Total Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) shown excludes taxes, title, registration, other optional or regionally required equipment, and dealer charges. The price and availability of Individually Commissioned Equipment (CXX) can be determined only after review and analysis by the manufacturer. Actual selling prices are set by dealers and may vary.

usctrojanGT3

So if you take out GT3s, RSs, and Rs out of the 911 totals the drop is even larger. I'd allocation more capacity to GT cars from non-GT 911s.

STG

Carrera 991.2 sales are down over 991.1 NA's

718 4 banger Turbo sales are down over Boxster and Cayman NA's.

Very disappointing obviously coming off of a new facelift.

Porsche is having a tough time with sports car sales. Any upside potential is with the GT models period.

Nick

Eduardo, thanks for the response. I understand the R issue but I was referring to blame heaped on the VIP program for the lack of allocations regarding the GT3. Many assumed that 918 owners were getting them all but in fact the allocations remain the same for the dealer after parcelling out 918 owners.

Nate, this is a CYA disclaimer as well as an acknowledgement by Porsche that some dealers are charging ADM's. Implicit in the disclaimer is Porsche is accepting the greedy dealer practice.

Porsche is being shortsighted on this issue and it will come back to haunt them unless they take action (my understanding is Porsche recently stated to apply some pressure on dealers but certainly not enough).

Dewinator

Well... what did they think was going to happen? Did anyone not see that coming?

If you think about it though, the real purpose of Porsche sports car sales as far as Vwag is concerned is to justify profit margins on Maccans, etc. So selling less of the lower-end models and more of the GTs may increase the brand's value that they can milk with the Maccans.

dark knight

Id support that move!

Nick

Unfortunately what makes the GT models attractive is they are NA. Porsche has emission requirements and without the 911 model range TT engines, they would have difficulty meeting the requirements.

If the GT3 was TT, not sure I would want one. It would all depend on the driving experience...sound, responsiveness and over all performance.

Dewinator

I don't think this is totally correct. Lamborghini doesn't have to meet emission requirements because parent Vwag can meet them off other Marquees and average the Lambos into the group, right? I think it would have been a better decision to do the same thing with Porsche, but obviously that's not the decision that they made.

Drifting

Agree with this. As has been stated elsewhere, Porsche is now basically an SUV company with a sports car heritage. They sell more and make more money from Cayennes and Macans, than they do from 911s and Boxsters.

As STG pointed out, Porsche doesn't understand their market as well as they thought, given how they undervalued the GT4, how they thought they could eliminate manual GT cars, and thought they could just stick turbos in a 911, a car defined by sound, feel, and emotion, and think people would still line up to give them six figures for it.
This is much of the reason there is so much demand for the 991 GT3, because its still a true 911, while the carrera has become a clinical, soulless turbo grand tourer.

Would have been smarter to make all the non-sports cars turbo, (Cayenne, Macan, Panamera), while keeping the true sports cars NA, (911, Boxster, Cayman). Most of their sales/profit are still from the first 3 cars and Porsche could have pulled this off.

Instead, people are going crazy for news of the possible GT3 touring car, because so many people want a wingless but NA 911, however, Porsche doesn't sell that anymore.

STG

Well said