Gravs

Electric power seems at first to be a complete turn off. But they could actually use it to make a very high revving NA drivable for the average customer. Exactly as done in the 918. Definitely a better solution than turbos. Of course this relies on them keeping the weight down. Obviously they could set it up to sail through a government economy test when in reality it would actually use plenty of fuel, just as a turbo does.

Alan Smithee

The 911R wasn't sold as an investment vehicle. Porsche has no responsibility to protect it as such. Besides, Porsche will have plenty of new baubles for those customers in the coming months...

C.J. Ichiban

The only issue with all of our collective Hybrid praise is that we are expecting them to just plop million dollar hypercar tech into mass produced cars...

It took over 10 years for all the 959 tech to rain into the 993 TT and even then some of it not until even later.

manitou202

Hybridization is already here. My wife's Volvo XC90 hybrid has gobs of torque. It drives 15 miles on electric only. There are plenty of examples of hybrid powertrains today. The hybrid part of the 918 wasn't anything special. Porsche has no excuse to not be able to make a hybrid N/A engine that out performs a turbo charged equivalent. Plus in terms of gaming the emissions rating hybrids trump turbos.

Needsdecaf

Yes, but to do that your wife's XC90 has a battery pack that takes up not only the spare wheel area, but the entire driveshaft tunnel. And it weighs almost 700 lbs more than an XC90 T6.

Try fitting that into a 911 sized vehicle and retaining the dynamics. Not so easy.

The Model S packs enough batteries to go nearly 300 miles...but isn't much larger than an A7, has a stripped down interior, carries no ICE, exhaust, etc....and still weighs 4,800 lbs.

Petevb

It's a huge mistake to assume all hybrids are equal, or in this case even vaguely related.

Of course Porsche could build an affordable 911 hybrid. Building a good one is another matter. They went to extremes in every area to make headroom for the weight of the 918's hybrid system. It cost a small fortune and the 918 was still a 3600 lb car. Example: the 918's engine made over 600 hp from just over 300 lbs. The new TT engine in a 991.2 S? Nearly 200 less hp, over 100 lbs more weight.

Using more affordable parts from a cooking Porsche and the hybrid would quickly exceed what the chassis was designed for, especially in the corners. Wider wheels and tires would help address that at additional cost and weight, but they only go so far in terms of feel (as anyone who's driven a modern 911 Turbo can attest to).

I suspect Porsche judged the impact of adding an affordable hybrid system as acceptable for their SUVs and sedans, but simply too large a compromise for their sports cars (at this time). If they were all hybrids it would be far easier design challenge, as planning for that from the outset gives a number of advantages. The 918 was able to save both weight and cost by removing the alternator and ancillaries from the engine- if all 911s were hybrid that would be easy. When they're not, however, you end up with the opposite: carrying extra weight and cost in all cases. Beefier suspension arms, etc necessitated by the hybrid would make all 911s more expensive and less supple through the bumps.

I suspect Porsche decided that making hybrid an option on the 911 created a situation where the improvents were unable to justify their costs in both weight and dollars. Clearly other manufactures have decided otherwise for their applications, but none are building sports cars to Porsche's standards.

C.J. Ichiban

Exactly Pete.

Sure we could slap Prius batteries on it but then it would handle like a piggy Aston Martin DB7.

If you want Porsche to stay on the light end of the sports car scale (which gets fatter annually) then they have to do a much more elegant hybrid than anyone has done yet.

Nobody has a core model sports car Hybrid- yet.

AMG?
M4?
Jag F type?
Aston DB?
Viper?
Vette?
Mustang?


This sucks to say but the best way to do it is from the 919 Hybrid not the 918...

V4.

Gravs

It will be interesting to see how planned changes to emissions tests will change things. Currently you're allowed to start the test with a full battery and finish with an empty one, which is absurd! Whatever they do I suspect it will still be possible to gamify the tests still though.

manitou202

That's true. The small size of the 911 does make it a lot more challenging and I didn't think about all of the beefier suspension etc.

To C.J.'s point about trickling down, do we consider the new Panamera Turbo S about half way? It's a big car, but that's the first main Porsche model that will have the hybrid at the top of the chart. I know it's turbo charged in addition, but obviously they are making improvements and have shown that a hybrid drive can be at the top.

hf1

What's the advantage of a hybrid vs. full electric?

TRAKCAR

No idea, something like vegetarian VS vegan.

Oldmxnut

I had corduroy pants once... wore only to church on a sunday ones .. It wasn't a good look!.. Some retro touches need to stay retro.

C.J. Ichiban

Bahahaha

Needsdecaf

No range anxiety
Keep top end power / pull.
Smaller / lighter battery as ICE can charge battery.
Don't need to turbocharge the engine....electric motors provide the "torque fill" (to borrow McLaren's phrase) at low revs.
Still sounds good!

Full electric... no need to haul around ICE as well as Electric drivetrain.
More seamless driving experience.
Low COG from low slung battery pack.
Crazy capabilities of torque vectoring.
Instant response to the "go pedal".

hf1

Sounds like hybrid is a mess -- electric is better.