Bardman

Not wanting to go too off topic, but a (very small) 3rd party such as Dundon were able to add 23HP to the GT3 just by changing the headers. I have no doubt Porsche could extract more without too much difficulty if they went after it.

ipse dixit

You cannot compare a company like Porsche, a global automotive subsidiary of VW, to a small aftermarket tuner.

Porsche has to worry about things like emissions, sound restrictions, durability, warranty, and overall marketability (i.e., not everyone wants a loud car). that an aftermarket tuner simply does not.

KA 991 GT3

^^^ that, and, 23 hp means nothing. It all depends on where the power is coming and at the cost of what? is the car losing top end? mid range? gaining low end? what about the tq? durability is already an issue with these cars I could care less to add any more power to them.

Whoopsy

They did the bodywork already on the Cup car. .2 GT3.

GT3R updated from the 991.1 GT3RS, which came off the line in 2015 as a model year 2016. RSR sort of stayed the same as they did for 2016 body wise, which was basically the .1 GT3RS.

Regulations dictated that cars stays the same without modifications for 2 years. They got a waiver for the RSR for 2017 when they switched to mid engine but kept pretty much the same bodywork. That means for the 2018 car they can either keep the same body style but swapping the engine to turbo from the GT2RS if the reworked aero package from the mid engine change worked out, or do a brand spanking new car based off the 992 bodywork. Will be tight timing wise to use the 992 as a base if the 992 comes out in 2018 as a 2019 model, that almost leave them no time to debate a 992 GT car as the base.

The wild card is the 960. IF that's a go ahead, Porsche could use that as the new base. But since nothing has been seen or heard about the 960, debuting it as a 2019 model for 2018 is sort of pushing it.

As for displacement to 4.2L, that's a tiny gain compared to what they can do with a turbo torque wise. Especially with air restrictors. The HP gain will be tiny and so will the torque. Switching to 3.0L turbo means they gain back a bigger diameter restrictor yet monster gain in torque.

Bardman

I feared these sort of responses when I posted (hence the concern about going off topic), but the message was more about the fact that if 3 guys in a shed (no disrespect to Dundon) can find these sorts of peak HP gains (even if they are cheating by ignoring emissions regulations) I have no fears that a company the size of Porsche could find these sorts of gains and more (without cheating).

KA 991 GT3

The 3.8 was in the 997, then they upped the HP to the 991... It is peaked.
The new GTS has quite a bit of HP and torque and delivering good numbers from their new turbo engines. There are perimeters, as others have done a great job explaining on here, that Porsche have to keep in mind as an industry leader. Yes, guys in a "shed" can do whatever and tinker but what is being produced or delivered isn't industry standard or reliable therefore it is not usable.
So, not making little of your comment, just stating the obvious and inevitable.

Bardman

The 997 had the Mezger engine, a completely different platform. You are suggesting that they peaked with this engine on its first iteration. I am suggesting that is unlikely.

On one hand, I think they would have left something "on the table" when they released the .1 (you are always thinking about whats coming next when you kick a new product out the door). Additionally, there would always be ideas developed during the engineering / design phase that just didn't make the cutoff (either due to timing or budget constraints at the time). These, plus ideas formed in the interim would naturally fold into the development of the .2.

usctrojanGT3

No offense but going with a smaller turbo to gain power is so lazy and is just going backyards in time. Tell, big power turbo engines have been around since the 90s with the Supra Turbo and 300ZX. Come out with something new and unique like KERS or cut 300-400 lbs off the GT cars.

Seranad

i would hope porsche would go for a full carbon tub for the next generation
i really dont care about even more power
lower weight though is always welcome

LSs1Power

Porsche GT program did some testing with a 997 GT3R Hybrid back in 2014 and it was very quick from what i can recall. I really hope we start seeing GT3 and GT3RS with the 4.0 and extra power coming from the batteries in 992 before they go the Turbo route. Otherwise, GT3 and GT3RS models dont make sense anymore and GT2 and GT2RS will be the only models Porsche sells and maybe use an R model with a NA engine even if the 992 GTS is going to be faster.

Bardman

Its an interesting view. I think between turbo and NA + electric I would prefer turbo strangely. There is something so "unmechanical" about electric motors that leaves me cold. Benefit of course is you keep NA exhaust sound.

LSs1Power

The 997 GT3R Hybrid used braking to generate a charge for two front mounted electric motors and the only use the power to exit corners and then shut down. The total system weight added 300lbs which doesnt really work on a street GT3, but they also used two 100 hp motors which are very big and heavy.

I think for a GT3 or GT3RS, they only need 60HP and 100TQ motor and a battery to store power from front brakes stored upfront and then link the power to transmission and keep it rwd only. If they manage to get the weight down to 100-150lbs i think its worth it and will keep NA power GT variants alive for at least 3-4 extra versions.

Manifold

If it's true that Porsche needs to continue raising the performance of all GT cars in order to be perceived as competitive, resulting in a NA 911 GT car under 500 hp like the 991.1 GT3 going away completely, I think that's kind of a shame.

The car is arguably already too fast for the road, while also being plenty fast for the track - I'm rarely passed by cars that aren't on Hoosiers or slicks, and don't feel the need for another 25+ hp. What more do we "need"?

I don't see why this car wouldn't be a desirable track/street car for the next decade, and if the base price could stay around $131K (adjusted for inflation), I don't see it really facing much competition from other manufacturers.

As far as internal competition within Porsche, yes, cars like the GTS are getting faster, but that has a base price of $119K, and if you spec it with RWS, aero, PDK, etc., the price will be close to the GT3, so it's not a cheaper way to get similar performance, just a different car for a somewhat different use.

I welcome turbo GT2/RS, hybrid, etc., but in addition to a car like the 991.1 GT3, not as replacements for it.

CAlexio

If you ever get to ride in or drive a 918 spyder, you might change your mind. You get your 100% NA sound and response, plus incredible linear torque. It's like someone took your NA engine car and sped it up like a movie reel is the best way I can describe it. It's utterly perfect from a power standpoint, with the only downside being a dynamic one with the added weight which you can definitely feel under braking in very heavy track braking situations, otherwise, it's almost transparent.

While I have had pretty extensive road and track time in a 918, I don't own one so if owners chime in on this would be fun to hear their day to day ownership perspective as well.

If I'm my mind a winner combo for 992 would be:
-a composite chassis to accommodate a small battery very low and central in the tub (central tunnel comes to mind).
-no need for a big battery for massive power, just small to torque fill the motor and keep it competitive powerwise with turbo cars.. we don't need 1000hp!
-911S version with NA engine & hybrid power to REAR wheels like a laferrari, NOT like a 918, retain the rear wheel drive steering purity and weight distribution of a 911.
OR
-awd 9114S option with electric power to front wheels.
-make the 911 Turbo as turbo PLUS hybrid like the P1 which is a massive adventure every time you drive it with turbos AND electric torque fill at lower revs, leaving the NA experience for the regular 911 versions, but making them faster without turbo.
-fix the regenerative braking of 918 which still gives a funny non-linear feeling when it kicks in.

my only hope is if 992 chassis goes hybrid that batteries stay very low and central... mclaren screwed thisbup with the p1 in my opinion.. and can FEEL the pendulum weight of that battery in left right transitions, not a good sensation at all.

Seranad

+1